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4) Only use it at the maximum necessary stimulation which is probably around 5 out of 10 on the dial for a midsized dog, and only use it to firm up behaviors that you are completely sure the dog already knows.

I have also never had to go higher than level 2 when using the collar to re-inforce commands.

Level 5 seems excessive to me.
 

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4) Only use it at the maximum necessary stimulation which is probably around 5 out of 10 on the dial for a midsized dog, and only use it to firm up behaviors that you are completely sure the dog already knows.
I have also never had to go higher than level 2 when using the collar to re-inforce commands.

Level 5 seems excessive to me.
Never make assumptions about what a dog can tolerate based on size, breed, or how "stubborn" he is.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
Inga
as you know the golden rule of dog work is dog must be shown what it is you want them to do, this dog had no idea what was going on. H*ll I had no idea what the jerk wanted. The other youtube I watched was by a Brad somebody(don't remember his name, in Canada I think) who was heeling a dog and smacking him on his head. I didn't know what he was doing either.
No kidding! I have always thought that myself. If I don't know what a person is asking the dog to do then how is the dog supposed to know? I have seen more dogs shut down with improper or unfair use of these collars. I still wish you had to take a class to purchase them. I also wish people would be prosecuted for doing things like in that video. It is shameful and unnecessary.
 

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I think if they work and don't inflict unnecessary harm on the animal, great. I, personally, would probably NEVER use one, simply because I -would- be a little too afraid that I might use it incorrectly. But if other people only use it properly, and the dog takes to it well, good.

I wish there was more information out there about the proper use of them, though...Too many people just get them, not even as a last resort or second-to-last resort, and misuse them. I'll have to see what information Petsmart (since I work there) offers, if any, and see if/how it can be improved...
 

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Never make assumptions about what a dog can tolerate based on size, breed, or how "stubborn" he is.
Good point.

I have also never had to go higher than level 2 when using the collar to re-inforce commands.

Level 5 seems excessive to me.
Just an FYI.....I was not making any assumptions. I was merely stating my experiences and personal opinion.
You're being judgemental. All dogs vary.

Regarding my 40 lb hound dog...

Below level 4 there was no perceptible response.

On level 4 she stopped and scratched her neck for a second. Level 8 caused her to jump and yelp, in fear and surprise. I only did that once.

Level 6 causes a slight jerk and sometimes a mild "half a yelp".

5 seems to be just about right if not a bit on the low side.
 

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I wish there was more information out there about the proper use of them, though...Too many people just get them, not even as a last resort or second-to-last resort, and misuse them. I'll have to see what information Petsmart (since I work there) offers, if any, and see if/how it can be improved...
This is the maddening thing. There is an enormous amount of information out there. There are accepted protocols that minimize the unpleasantness and achieve quite satisfactory results. Still, people strap collars on and light their dogs up any time they get PO'd at the beast. If many of these people did the foundation work necessary prior to collar conditioning, they'd probably decide they don't need the collar in the first place.

If you can't train a dog without an e-collar, you have no business trying it with an e-collar.
 

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Good point.





You're being judgemental. All dogs vary.

Regarding my 40 lb hound dog...

Below level 4 there was no perceptible response.

On level 4 she stopped and scratched her neck for a second. Level 8 caused her to jump and yelp, in fear and surprise. I only did that once.

Level 6 causes a slight jerk and sometimes a mild "half a yelp".

5 seems to be just about right if not a bit on the low side.

That was not being judgemental. That was stating my experience and a personal opinion.

Being judgemental would have been if I said that you were being cruel for using anything above level 2, which I did not say.

I am well aware that all dogs vary. I've used the ecollar for much longer than a week.
 

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That was not being judgemental. That was stating my experience and a personal opinion.

Being judgemental would have been if I said that you were being cruel for using anything above level 2, which I did not say.

I am well aware that all dogs vary. I've used the ecollar for much longer than a week.
I'm sure you've got more experience than me using an ecollar, although I've used one for much more than a week. I had a dog once before, years ago, and I learned a lot from that experience as well.

Regardless, you responded to my post and quoted my suggestion that level 5 is probably about right for a mid size dog as "sounding excessive" but you didn't preface it with "for your dogs" so the inference is that it's excessive for ANY dog.

I made the same mistake as you by suggesting that level 5 is about right for a mid size dog, the other poster pointed out that it wasn't a safe assumption to make because all dogs respond differently.
 

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Too many distress signals were ignored to say the dog was comfortable. So I think the answer to the question is, no, not this trainer, not my dog.
 

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!

I tried using force on Strauss (at the advice of others) for the retrieve and ended up with him going "F you, I won't play if you treat me that way!" I may have eventually gotten him to retrieve, but I wouldn't have the ecstatic go out and return if I had.

I ended up clicker training him through it, and his retrieve is fantastic. I never forced the object in his mouth, he started reaching and taking it on his own.
Ditto... we clicker-trained the retrieve with Libby as well, and she is now reliably retrieving birds from small distances with no distractions and holding them until we instruct her to drop it into our hand. She took to it very quickly once we started with the positive training!
 

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I felt so sorry for this dog, he kept looking around for a way out but was too scared to move. If he was properly trained why did he have to keep saying "Sit, sit, sit". and I am still puzzled how an e-collar would work for what he was doing.

My sister has a Redbone hound. We like to take the dogs out in a Valley to walk and they are off leash. We had to stop taking him as he would get his nose down and off he would go. She got an e-collar for him and only used it once. She beeped him once, then just used the lowest setting on it. He stopped, looked back at her and came running. He has never once ignored her since and usually just goes a certain distance, then circles back. He does not even have it on now. He was bottle raised and is a very sensitive dog, I am sure it would not have worked so well on a Hound that was really driven to hunt.
 

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Re: !

Why the F does he keep telling the dog to sit when it's ALREADY SITTING?? ANY good trainer will know you don't need to say "sit sit sit sit" ESPECIALLY when the dog is SITTING. This guy is a MORON and plenty of other words that are too strong for this forum.

Also that isn't a FETCH, it's a soft hold.

God this guy loves the word sit. I've never seen a real trainer tell a dog to sit when it's already sitting, and repeat words SO often. Anyone can force something into a dogs mouth. I hope he gets his hand chewed off one day.
 

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Discussion Starter #36 (Edited)
I felt so sorry for this dog, he kept looking around for a way out but was too scared to move. If he was properly trained why did he have to keep saying "Sit, sit, sit". and I am still puzzled how an e-collar would work for what he was doing.

My sister has a Redbone hound. We like to take the dogs out in a Valley to walk and they are off leash. We had to stop taking him as he would get his nose down and off he would go. She got an e-collar for him and only used it once. She beeped him once, then just used the lowest setting on it. He stopped, looked back at her and came running. He has never once ignored her since and usually just goes a certain distance, then circles back. He does not even have it on now. He was bottle raised and is a very sensitive dog, I am sure it would not have worked so well on a Hound that was really driven to hunt.
I know. I wanted to cry looking at this poor guy. How could his owners sit there watching that and not go start smacking the trainer/guy around? The thing is... he wasn't even getting the preferred reaction. It looked at one point like he was jamming the dogs lip against his tooth to get him to open his mouth. He was not getting the dog to "take it" not without forcing it into his mouth every time. I guess I don't understand what it was the video was really trying to show. It didn't look like a success to me. It just looked like torture. I wish I could have stole that dog right away from them.

It is good when things work for your dog. I am glad your sisters dog worked so well for her. :D

and Jesirose: It isn't his hand I was hoping to have chewed off by an angry dog someday. ;)
 

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I think this thread was misnamed as in reality it has more to do with the incompetence of the man(still not using the word trainer) than an e-collar. I have an idea if he was using treats he would be giving them to the wrong end of the dog. Maybe a class action lawsuit for the harm he is doing to competent trainers businesses would be in order.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
I think this thread was misnamed as in reality it has more to do with the incompetence of the man(still not using the word trainer) than an e-collar. I have an idea if he was using treats he would be giving them to the wrong end of the dog. Maybe a class action lawsuit for the harm he is doing to competent trainers businesses would be in order.

No kidding! I had to torture myself a bit more and looked up more info on him. Seems he has used the collar on other parts of the dogs anatomy as well. NOT just around the dogs neck. Or so it has been claimed. This guy should be stopped.
I just got sick to my stomach reading all of this crap. I don't know why I do things like that? The "training" video was enough to make my stomach turn. He has tons of them out there too. Not only is he making money torturing dogs but he is training other people to do the same thing. He sure seems to enjoy the attention. Must make him feel like a man. My thought is if he were more of a man he wouldn't need to hurt dogs to feel like one.
 
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