Puppy Forum and Dog Forums banner
21 - 40 of 50 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,436 Posts
I don't enjoy the suffering or death of any animal, but it is part of nature. Dogs are carnivores and, as such, are predators. It is what they are at the most basic level. Bunnies, birds and other animals they can take down are their prey. Those animals exist so the predators can exist and it's all one big cycle.

A greyhound *should* want to chase and catch rabbits. It is what defines them as a breed. I will hopefully make it out to an open field coursing event this year just to experience it and see if I feel like any of my dogs can participate in an event moving forward. Do I want the jacks to be caught? Well, not necessarily (though farmers would probably disagree with that! The jacks are nuisance animals out west), but this is how man and greyhound and rabbit have existed together for thousands of years. There is nothing vicious or mean about it. It is nature.

Granted, we have bred this 'killer (predatory) instinct' out of many breeds and those breeds are a better choice for those who are more faint of heart when it comes to dealing with matters of hunting/death. Animals died to make kibble for your dog. You just don't see that part of the process so it's easy to not think about. When a dog takes matters into their own paws and hunts on their own, at least that prey animal usually has a sporting chance to escape with it's life. We had two rabbits living in our front yard...they occasionally wander into the back yard. One lasted about a week before it ran straight into the path of an oncoming greyhound. Bad mistake. The other is quite clever and hasn't come close to being caught. Survival of the fittest/best in action.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,574 Posts
Discussion Starter · #22 ·
Oh Grey, Believe me, I have Thanked God on a regular basis that I do not have to kill meat for myself or my dogs. I would for sure be a vegetarian instead of just being close to one.
Once again, that was a large part of my reason for this post. I got one of those breeds where that "killer instinct" or "prey drive" was bred down. At least from a small animal perspective. I have the breed that will fit comfortably with the wimpy or in your words "faint of heart". That is me, and I am proud of it. :) lol
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,804 Posts
Allie catches, kills and eats things when ever she has the oppurtunity. She is fast too and has caught squirrels who were even close to trees. I feel bad for the animal, but Allie deserves to run around in the yard if she wants. She usually eats what she catches, unless I get to her first and remove it. In the spring and summer she doesn't eat very much dog food.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,132 Posts
Allie catches, kills and eats things when ever she has the oppurtunity. She is fast too and has caught squirrels who were even close to trees. I feel bad for the animal, but Allie deserves to run around in the yard if she wants. She usually eats what she catches, unless I get to her first and remove it. In the spring and summer she doesn't eat very much dog food.
Same here with Blizzard- he's fast and catches birds and shrews but doesn't eat them. I hate to see him troubling the little animal so I usually take it away. Call me a softie if you want:p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,761 Posts
Oh Grey, Believe me, I have Thanked God on a regular basis that I do not have to kill meat for myself or my dogs. I would for sure be a vegetarian instead of just being close to one.
Oh, so now we're judging life are we? Meaty life > Leafy life? What a hypocrite to kill live vegetables and proclaim an allegiance to wimptitude! :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,851 Posts
Cats kill their prey by delivering a neck bite that severs the spinal cord. To do this, they must temporarily release the prey to get at the nape of the neck, but when they do so, they risk the prey escaping or counterattacking.
[...]
A cat will “play” with her prey to tire it out in order to reduce the risk of injury to herself, but she is not actually playing in the human sense. She is simply doing the job that her instincts tell her she must do in order not to starve, and protecting herself in the process.
[...]
Only when the prey is sufficiently tired and dazed is the cat able to make the kill.
Okay, let me put on my Muck Boots and get my manure fork. Domestic cats hunt because they have the instinct to do so. Toying with prey is part of that instinct. Wearing a prey animal out is definitely not part of the program. The more time a predator takes to kill, the more time the prey has to escape or get in a "lucky punch" and injure the predator.

Wild cats kill as quickly and efficiently as felinley possible, but toy with their kill afterward. Nobody can say precisely why, but it is not unreasonable to guess that they "relive" the kill because the adrenaline/endorphine release is highly rewarding. Domestic cats often toy with their prey before the kill because they: a) are not hungry, and; b) have never been trained to kill properly. We typically take kittens from their mothers before they've been all the way through kitty boot camp. Some catch-and-release out of boredom or pre-programmed behavior, but seem to have no real understanding of the endgame. That usually doesn't enhance the bird's or mouse's future prospects.

Some domestic predators kill without any intention of eating their prey. They are too well fed to hunt out of a survival need. They are hard-wired for hunting behavior, and doing so completes them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Most of my male Rotties are very gentle with baby animals, although some of my girls are not.
DeeOhGee has been a champion of baby bunnies. A couple of years ago he suddenly went wild in the house, barking, spinning at the door, pulling on my clothing. I opened the door and he went OVER the 5 ft. fence and ran behind a polebarn. I was right behind him. Okay, maybe 75 ft. behind him.
What had upset him was a bunny nest being torn apart by crows! He pulled the last baby bunny out of the nest, the only survivor, and carried it into the house in his mouth. I didn't think it would survive, but 6 weeks later we turned it loose in the yard.


 

·
Registered
Joined
·
637 Posts
I have a similar story with my mastiff. when she was a little younger she would follow the wild swamp hens around in the paddocks next door. it was so sweet, she would sit by the water and watch them and they would peck around her and she would roll on her back, she loved them. she found a dead one once (had been dead for a while by the smell) and sat beside it all day with a very melancholy air. then one day our neighbours saw her in their paddock (not that they used it) and thought she was stalking and killing the hens...no matter what i said that was her days with them over....

so then we started breeding rabbits, well she's their protector now and loves nothing more than to sit by them and clean them and occasionally when they are out in the house, will bring one to me, with a look that says, i thought you looked like you needed to pat a bunny. The only animal she doesn't like is my parrot, but that's mutual, she won't try to hurt him, but when he's out, op's for the cold shoulder routine, while he tries to mangle her tail
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
399 Posts
Hmm I personally dont have a problem with my dogs killing rodents ect. We live on a farm and our old westie maddie was trained to kill rodents like gophers, mice and moles. Although instinct made it easy for us. She would even spend her days out in the field just hunting mice when she was not helping us with a specific job to get rid of the rodents, not we dont really need that job filled because there was a huge flood on out field and it killed all the rodents, which we were not crying about. Athough I am sure Maddie was.

But she did know her boundries, my house hold always had rodents inside like mice, ferrets, hedgehogs, hamsters guineapigs, we even had baby moles that we rescued we also had birds. Maddie would always leave them alone, she actually would pretent that the guineapigs were her babies and she would carry them around and pretend to nurse them, she has never hurt or even tried to hurt a pet of ours.

Our old Bouvier Shadow would always be out in the forest and fieldhunting. I do though am a little squimish with an animal that is not killed ASAP and is suffering.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,574 Posts
Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Oh, so now we're judging life are we? Meaty life > Leafy life? What a hypocrite to kill live vegetables and proclaim an allegiance to wimptitude! :p
I guess I will need to start eating dirt and rocks. :rolleyes:

I have shown this picture before but I have to again. This was my girl Inga. I found that rabbit in a park. It was obviously a domestic rabbit that someone had turned out. I took him right to the vet and had him checked. I brought him home and Inga wanted him right away. She loved all bunnies.


What did shock me is that the bunny was pretty darn comfortable very quickly also, as you can see in the picture.

RRRRRots I love the pictures of your sweet boy. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Inga and her bunny are pretty cute together too.

Dogs with high prey drive can be really interesting to work with. I love my Libby, aka Miss Mess. She keeps me on my toes. I have learned so much about dog posture from her! lol
She has snatched up and killed so many wild creatures before I even SEE them! And she is quick about it. No messing around. She's GREAT at lure coursing, and usually the only Rottie there. I think she's more tolerant since allowing her an outlet for that drive.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,574 Posts
Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Ah yes, my dogs love lure coursing too. White plastic baggie on the line though, no real rabbits. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,837 Posts
My dogs (to my knowledge, they are rescues!) have never killed a thing. I keep the guinea pigs away from them, because Jonas and Jack ARE hunters and Jack tends to get excited and kick/stomp things with his paws, not really trying to hurt or kill. They will go after cats and squirrels and the like, but Jack does what Elkhounds do. Just corners them and barks for us. Jonas acts like he's going to viciously tear them apart, and then stops about 10 feet away and barks at the offender. Some Dachshund he is :p

A few years ago, when Smalls was only about 6 months old, we took in a very tiny 5 week old kitten we found under a shed and his mom never came back. He was pretty sick, but he came around and became Chairman Meow. Smalls LOVED that kitten. They NEVER stopped playing. All day long, just chasing each other and him climbing all over her. When we walked her, he climbed up the screen windows and screeched until we came back. Unfortunately, he was accidentally killed in a very bad accident. During the rush, we ran him into the bathroom and put him in the tub to keep her away while we grabbed his carrier and rushed him to the vet. When we came back, she was laying in the bathroom. She would not leave the bathroom for any thing. We tried luring her out and she just laid on the floor next to the tub whining softly. This lasted for days until we had to take her to the vet because she was NOT eating.

She eventually let go of Chairman, but she has never enjoyed another cat. She ignores them completely now, even playful kittens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,467 Posts
I have a couple of collies that would ace lure coursing if I could find an event to enter them at.

Mine are taught to leave our chickens and cats alone when we are out and about on the farm. However, if they are out in the kennel and I'm not around and a chicken manages to fly over into the runs, that's too bad. You can't expect them to be good all of the time. :p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,966 Posts
My dogs go nuts over squirrels and stray cats. If there were wild rabbits down where I live they would go nuts over them too. I have no doubt that if I let Spunky loose on a cat, she would catch it, kill it and then eat it. Maybe it's because I'm used to owning a breed with such a strong prey drive, but it's something I've gotten completely used to. I'm not in the least revolted by the idea; no more than I am revolted by cats killing mice or wolves killing steer. If I were revolted by it I would not own dogs.

My dogs aren't murderers. Murderers kill for fun, or out of malice. My dogs aren't even hunters. Hunters kill to eat. There is only ONE goal in the functional chain -- food acquisition. My dogs are Beagles. There is a huge red sign that goes on in their heads when they see a running small animal, and it says "CHASE, GRAB!!!" They don't have logical rationale for this big red sign, and neither do I. But they aren't hunters in the sense that the predation sequence isn't complete.

When I imagine what Spunky would do if she were off-leash and saw a cat, it goes something like this: she would immediately give chase. If it disappeared from sight, she would sniff it out tirelessly till she got near, after which she would grab it. She would not eye or stalk it; if she killed it, she would probably do so from grabbing it too hard or shaking it, not from delivering a calculated bite to a specific area. She would not dissect it, either.

The Coppingers said that the predation sequence went in seven steps: orient, eye, stalk, chase, grab, bite-kill, bite-dissect. We see various steps in this chain emphasised in certain breeds but reduced in others. Border Collies eye and stalk, but must never grab. Labs chase and grab, but do not bite to kill. Just because my beagles have a genetic history that have enhanced certain behaviours doesn't make them full-blown hunters or instinctive killers. It just means they have enhanced behaviours.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,975 Posts
It doesn't bother me when my dogs kill WILD nusiance animals, like squirrels, chipmunk, groundhogs and other such varmits. They've never killed a cat, or a kitten: in fact, my girls love kittens.

I have a story, but it is kind of off topic...
My friends old tom cat had been gone for 2 months, and came back very ill. Since their family doesn't really consider cats to be pets :rolleyes:, they let the poor guy get worse and worse, until the poor thing was wailing in obvious pain, and was too weak to walk. So, they locked it in a crate, put it out behind their garage, and called me. So, after work, I went over there tosee what was up. They were trying to come up with ways to kill it: they had a gun, but my friends stepdad was too big of a coward that he couldn't shot a dying cat. So, I volunteered to put it out of its misery. The wailing... I've never heard an animal sound like that before, and I hope to never hear it again.

I'm (somewhat) like you, Inga: if I see a suffering animal, I try to end its pain.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,851 Posts
My Rotts were okay with cats, but seemed to feel that interacting with cats was beneath their dignity. I had them both over my sister's house and the two Rotties and Sis's cats all made an obvious point of ignoring one another. The male did dispatch a large feral tomcat that swaggered through the yard, one time. I was working at my desk, where I could watch the dogs from the window, and I saw the cat enter the yard. Neither dog seemed to pay him much attention. Just as I was getting up to shoo the cat, Mack moved on him and it was all over before I was standing fully upright. There was no fight. There wasn't even any sound.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,385 Posts
My terrier has never killed anything, but he definitely has a prey drive and would probably try and eat a rabbit/squirell, etc...

Oddly, he LOVES my two baby ferrets(and loves older ferrets) Even when they sprint across the room and grab on to his face he doesn't react other than trying to play with them...it's quite weird.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
363 Posts
I think one of the real joys of owning a dog is when you see it doing very instinctual things, just 'being a dog', seeing their animal side. And hunting is as instinctual as you get. Its not the sign of a bad or evil dog.

Our lab is likely proud of the 2,000 grasshoppers he has killed; the mouse he caught and kept mouthing (but not killing) is I guess a partial victory, and the 50 or so rabbits he has chased and never caught is a total failure. I love watching him try though.

I'm not sure what he would do with the rabbit even if he caught it. Probably just mouth it, play with it, carry it back. All that breeding .......

My Dad had a GSD who caught a big raccoon in the back yard years ago. Raccoons can be pretty nasty when cornered. The GSD was something else though, strictly business, straight to the neck. No mouthing or playing with that boy. And nobody had to 'use Premack' to teach him how to do it, LOL My Dad was one proud pappy.
 
21 - 40 of 50 Posts
Top