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Speaking of which, where's all the uproar about Shaun Ellis? Why aren't people all freaked out because now, people will think it's okay to just go live with a pack of wild wolves and act like a wolf! How disgusting! This man should stop what he's doing! After all, it's just for ratings that he does this... :rolleyes:

:p
 

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CM has an open invitation to visit Wolf Park, which he has yet to accept. The trainers there would love to show CM wolf behavior, and they've even joked about allowing CM to try his "dog whispering" with certain individuals among the pack...knowing he'd leave armless if he did. But CM is a smart guy and he must know that Wolf Park would not allow him near the animals for both the animal's safety and his...so I presume that's why he hasn't accepted. Likely not enough entertainment value in giving the educators at Wolf Park a segment in his show. Which is understandable since it would not be 'Cesar's Way'...besides the fact that their information is likely to be contradictory to the show.
 

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Speaking of which, where's all the uproar about Shaun Ellis? Why aren't people all freaked out because now, people will think it's okay to just go live with a pack of wild wolves and act like a wolf! How disgusting! This man should stop what he's doing! After all, it's just for ratings that he does this... :rolleyes:

:p
1. He's a loon.
2. It's not ok to just go live with a pack of wild wolves and act like a wolf.
3. There's a greater than average chance that he's going to either end up like the Grizzly Man, the wolves will become so accustomed to human presence that they become a threat and have to be destroyed, or both.
 

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Nekomi...Vada...what would you guess as to her content?
Looking at Vada I would say she is low to low-mid, Hyde probably a solid mid-content. That's based on their looks... based on temperament, I'd say the same... Hyde to me has much more wolfy body language. In the one scene where Vada is reacting to a dog going by, and Hyde gets a little riled up in the background... watch the difference in the way that Vada and Hyde are reacting. Vada is completely forward, barking and lunging. Hyde in contrast is more unsure of himself, but instead of barking, just showing a lot of teeth and jaw-snapping, and squeaking.
 

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Looking at Vada I would say she is low to low-mid, Hyde probably a solid mid-content. That's based on their looks... based on temperament, I'd say the same... Hyde to me has much more wolfy body language. In the one scene where Vada is reacting to a dog going by, and Hyde gets a little riled up in the background... watch the difference in the way that Vada and Hyde are reacting. Vada is completely forward, barking and lunging. Hyde in contrast is more unsure of himself, but instead of barking, just showing a lot of teeth and jaw-snapping, and squeaking.

I was putting her at very low to no wolf content.

Hyde I pegged for low to mid.

mostly based on behavior. The high contents I have run across didn't do much in the way of barking...they did a lot of "roo roo" kind of noises and yippy sort of noises, though that was only when they actually made noise...which wasn't really that often. that's just based off my experiences though..
 

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You may very well be right, Zim - I agree that Vada really didn't show any obviously wolf-like behavior. She is likely low-content, I wouldn't say she is no-content though (basing that on looks - ears, face structure in general, tail set and carriage, paw size).

It's so hard to peg these guys and it's always impossible to know for sure - ask 10 different wolfdog owners for their opinion on content, and you'll get 10 different answers. :D I think your evaluation was pretty accurate.

You're so right on the high-contents being quiet and rarely barking... it's usually yips, squeaks, howls, and whines. They don't rely much on vocalizations to get their point across, though, like you said.
 

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Just a question - I know nothing about wolf dogs - but it seems to me that it would be very difficult to study their characteristics effectively because:

i) you don't seem to reliably know the actual wolf content of a particular dog

ii) if the dogs are hybrids then couldn't any behavior they do be originating from either the 'wolf side' or the 'dog/breed side'?

It seems to me there would be a danger of hypothesizing 'wolves act like XXX'. And then if the hybrid acts like XXX it is attributed to the wolf, and if it doesn't act like XXX then it is attributed to the dog/breed side. ie - it is very difficult to test your hypothesis .....

How do you try to overcome this ? Or am I confused?
 

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Just a question - I know nothing about wolf dogs - but it seems to me that it would be very difficult to study their characteristics effectively because:

i) you don't seem to reliably know the actual wolf content of a particular dog

ii) if the dogs are hybrids then couldn't any behavior they do be originating from either the 'wolf side' or the 'dog/breed side'?

It seems to me there would be a danger of hypothesizing 'wolves act like XXX'. And then if the hybrid acts like XXX it is attributed to the wolf, and if it doesn't act like XXX then it is attributed to the dog/breed side. ie - it is very difficult to test your hypothesis .....

How do you try to overcome this ? Or am I confused?
confused.

there's two types of content...genotype and phenotypic expression(this being a combination of behavioral and physical traits)

genotype is impossible to determine without ancestors on site plus blood tests.

phenotypic expression is basically...how many wolf characteristics does the animal have?

You can easily distinguish a pure wolf from a pure dog..it takes experience but its very easy if you know what you are looking for.

hybrids with unknown ancestry can really only be distinguished by phenotypic expression...and only by a practiced eye.

http://www.wolfpark.org/wolfdogs/Poster_section1.html

here's a link with a general explanation.
 

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Thanks for the link; very interesting read.

I've read elsewhere that you can do a genetic test to determine the breed (ie mix) of your dog, at least as far as he is composed of the common breeds they have 'mapped'. Won't the same sort of test tell you % wolf ?
 

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not sure. depends on if both genotypes have been FULLY mapped.

and I wanted to address one other thing...


ii) if the dogs are hybrids then couldn't any behavior they do be originating from either the 'wolf side' or the 'dog/breed side'?
no.

wolf behavior is VERY distinct and different from dog behavior. Wolves are wild...unless they have been selectively bred in captivity for about eighty years...they are still wild.

meaning faster responses, greater intelligence and problem solving skills, flight instinct towards humans and a whole lot more. they are NOT like a dog except superficially.

Example..

human approaches dog..dog will likely wag tail and approach.

human approaches wolf...wolf will run away or if it feels cornered, attack.
 

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Very interesting - I don't know anything about wolfdogs either.

A wolf will likely run when approached by a human? Huh - maybe I was looking at Wally's old behavior wrong. He's not fearful - he's just acting like a wolf :D

Now he's acting a little more like a dog :D
 

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Very interesting - I don't know anything about wolfdogs either.

A wolf will likely run when approached by a human? Huh - maybe I was looking at Wally's old behavior wrong. He's not fearful - he's just acting like a wolf :D

Now he's acting a little more like a dog :D
he's fearful.

wolves are fearful of humans. Natural Selection has hardwired them to be afraid of us. as a whole we are a serious threat to them. they run..because they are scared.
 

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Any idea why is it that coyotes seem to be less people shy than wolves (even when living in the same general area) ? You'd think their experience with humans would be equally negative.
 

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Here's how I see this aspect of it. Not having an informative show about wolfdogs for fear that people might want to get one, is right up there with not having sex education because the kids might want to do it if they know about it.... or not teaching kids about birth control because it will encourage them to have sex. It's not a practical or effective way to address the problems with people and their hybrids. Nor is ignoring birth control education a practical and effective way to keep teenagers from getting pregnant.

I'm not crazy about people having these hybrids, but I know a couple of Internet friends who have them and do fantastic things with them. I'm not going to stop people from owning these animals, nor do I think it's my place to try to do so, so the more education out there about them, the better.

So I totally support anyone having a show about them. Cesar has a lot of respect for the animal and recognizes that they're not like dogs. They're different and he stresses that. If anything, it's just as likely that the problems shown on his show will discourage people from getting one.
I'm basically with you on this. CM does do a fairly decent job of advising viewers to find their own professional behavioralists to work with their dogs, and not to try his techniques at home without professional guidance.

The thing is, we all know there are plenty of people who don't heed these warnings. I worry about similar thinking regarding wolf hybrids. If he's going to film a few episodes about wolf hybrids, I think the theme of these episodes should be on how wolf hybrids are NOT easy keepers. The level of commitment needed to care for these animals should be made apparent to even the densest of viewers.

If these episodes turn out to only be CM showing off with wolfdogs, a significant opportunity to educate the public will be missed, and I will be very, very upset.
 

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I'm sure that CM will get slagged for the show, regardless of how he presents it. He is already endlessly criticized for certain techniques he uses even though they say about 10 times per show 'Don't do this without the advice of a professional .....'. If he tells everyone 'Don't get a wolf hybrid' his critics will just say 'viewers will ignore the warning and get a wolf hybrid anyways'. So how can he win?

I think if he presents his material in what he views as an honest way then he is blameless.
 

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Any idea why is it that coyotes seem to be less people shy than wolves (even when living in the same general area) ? You'd think their experience with humans would be equally negative.

I don't know for certain. but I could hazard a guess that the reason could be dietary.

Adaptation occurs as a result of environment and what it takes to survive in said environment.

Coyotes...from what I understand tend far more towards scavenging than wolves do. Scavenging requires a bit of fearlessness on the part of the scavenger.
 

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I think if he presents his material in what he views as an honest way then he is blameless.
Well, to be fair, I think that as when a person presents themselves as an expert on an issue, they have to be mindful of how the information they put forth will be interpreted. But that being said, CM does exactly what you said - he plasters his show with disclaimers. There's not much else he can do regarding the actions of his audience.

I'm sure he's aware of how misleading the image of him handling wolf hybrids without the appearance of much effort could be to some viewers, so I'm pretty sure he's going to take steps to inform his audience about the challenges of hybrid ownership. But who knows - guess I'll have to watch :)
 

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I don't know for certain. but I could hazard a guess that the reason could be dietary.

Adaptation occurs as a result of environment and what it takes to survive in said environment.

Coyotes...from what I understand tend far more towards scavenging than wolves do. Scavenging requires a bit of fearlessness on the part of the scavenger.
Hadn't thought of that. Clever Zim .....
 
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