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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.atts.org/

http://www.atts.org/statistics.html

Unless they test over three dozen dogs per breed I somewhat discount the results. But this was interesting.

Some of these dogs are very rare, but have small samples.

Average is 81.9%.

A lot of surprising results, even though some samples are small. Dogo Argentino is one example.

Check out the Dogue de Bordeaux and my favorite Finnish Spitz! Not good. Even with a somewhat small sample the Presa Canario did OK!

Basenjis have real issues. Cairn terriers, too! :eek: And Salukis. And bulldogs! Shetland Sheepdogs are tricky. Scotties too, of course, though their sample is small. Schnauzers are very low, with a big sample.

Irish Setter, Labs, and Belgian Malinois are sweeties! I did like the latter a lot at the WKC show. Schipperkes are sweet, too. And English cocker spaniels. Curly Coated Retrievers are high. So are Pugs.

Stafforshire Bull Terriers are WAY above average!

Rottweilers are slightly ABOVE average.

Chihuahas are well below average.

Neap. mastiffs' sample is too small, but they seem below average.

Yorkies are about average, which surprised me.

Very interesting stuff.

Here is what they do. . .

>> About Canine Temperament

Because of breed-specific dog legislation and negative publicity associated with many breeds of dogs, temperament testing has assumed an important role for today's dog fancier. The ATTS Temperament Test provides breeders a means for evaluating temperament and gives pet owners insight into their dog's behavior. It can have an impact on breeding programs and in educating owners about their dog's behavioral strengths and weaknesses as well as providing a positive influence on dog legislation.
What is temperament?

W. Handel, German Police Dog Trainer, in his article, "The Psychological Basis of Temperament Testing," defines temperament as:

"the sum total of all inborn and acquired physical and mental traits and talents which determines, forms and regulates behavior in the environment"

The ATTS test focuses on and measures different aspects of temperament such as stability, shyness, aggressiveness, and friendliness as well as the dog's instinct for protectiveness towards its handler and/or self-preservation in the face of a threat. The test is designed for the betterment of all breeds of dogs and takes into consideration each breed's inherent tendencies.

The test simulates a casual walk through the park or neighborhood where everyday life situations are encountered. During this walk, the dog experiences visual, auditory and tactile stimuli. Neutral, friendly and threatening situations are encountered, calling into play the dog's ability to distinguish between non-threatening situations and those calling for watchful and protective reactions. <<
 

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What are the surprises?
I assume you, in a few minutes, read all the results. So, none to you, obviously.

But to the general public more than a few, especially vis a vis the Staffordshires and Rotts.

I was not surprised by that, but was a little by Cairns and Schnauzers.

Instead of questioning me, comment on the results as presented in the testing.
 

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I thought the ATTS test was great when I read about it, but after attending one last year, was not all that impressed. A test is only as good as the person giving it.
 

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I assume you, in a few minutes, read all the results. So, none to you, obviously.

But to the general public more than a few, especially vis a vis the Staffordshires and Rotts.

I was not surprised by that, but was a little by Cairns and Schnauzers.

Instead of questioning me, comment on the results as presented in the testing.
Of course I've read the results, but not just now, previously I have. If I had not read them I would still not see what is the surprise. I expected something else from this thread I guess, not sure what though. Maybe that is the thing when you just read a title of a thread.

I've found that most the general public doesn't even know what a SBT is. Perhaps if I was in UK it would be different.

I asked you the question because you are the one who made the thread.

As for commenting on the results. I think that while they take into consideration breed they are geared more towards certain breeds/temperament types. Breeds that are drivey, confident and cocky are more likely to do better. Social breeds with high confidence will also do well for the most part.

I'd like to know why the dogs that failed did. I find reading the results of the test more interesting. Actually even when they pass it is nice to see exactly.

I'm am surprised they have separate results under both Dogo Canario and Presa Canario.

I thought the ATTS test was great when I read about it, but after attending one last year, was not all that impressed. A test is only as good as the person giving it.
Ditto. I couldn't agree more. They are great and all to do, but testers can very and some or not that good.
 

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I have seen this before and it didn't surprise me either. Not only because of this test but because in the shelter, I did some of the temperament testing. No, I never gave an easier test or passed any dogs that shouldn't pass simply because I liked the breed. In fact, I would much rather see a dog fail the test, if there is any question at all about their temperament. It simply is not worth someone getting bit when they adopt the dog. With 31+ years of owning Rotties, it is no surprise to me that they tend to have solid temperaments. I have rescued many of them from seriously bad homes and yet they came out of it with a solid temperament. Pit Bulls did amazingly well in a shelter situation too so their results didn't shock me either.

As far as the amount of each breeds tested, it isn't any different then the "bite statistics" being slightly skewed either. Let's face it, there simply are more of some breeds then others. More dogs result in higher incidence of .... whatever.
 

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The temperment tests have one big failing...they do not measure intelligence which IMO, is a far more important component of a dogs make-up.

There once was a puppy who failed test after test and fortunately, the prospective new owner saw something else in the pup. The pup had incredible intelligence to learn new things after only one or two exposures. He went on to become the highest ranked obedience dog in the USA for many years.

For those who are interested in researching, the dogs name was Chimney Sweep...call name Sweep.
 

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well seeing as most people in the USA don't even know what a Stafforshire bull terrier is, I can't imagine people are surprised.

Now the general public might be surprised about the American Pit bull Terriers and the American Staffordshire Terrier results.

I personally have only met one Am Staff and He was a sweety.

I have met and handled about 4 Am Pits and all were very sweet with humans, but had blood lust when it came to other dogs (except one who loved everything and everyone).

So the results for the Am Staffs and Am Pits don't surprise me in the least.

I'm assuming since these are breeds of "controversy" that these are what you wanted people to comment about.

The temperment tests have one big failing...they do not measure intelligence which IMO, is a far more important component of a dogs make-up.

There once was a puppy who failed test after test and fortunately, the prospective new owner saw something else in the pup. The pup had incredible intelligence to learn new things after only one or two exposures. He went on to become the highest ranked obedience dog in the USA for many years.

For those who are interested in researching, the dogs name was Chimney Sweep...call name Sweep.
Well the test is marketed as a "Temperament" test and not an intelligence test.

Intelligence and temperament in my experience is very separate.

I met an amazing UD level Border Collie once, who wanted to take my hand off.

BUt I agree that the Temperament test shouldn't be used to determine the dog's abilities in training
 
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