[Bob Dole]

Ok, there's a ton of "dog peeing in crate threads", but nothing along the lines of my issue. My dog is German Shepard clone. The father had some Shepard but was a mix. The mom was a lab-looking mix. My dog basically looks like a black German Shepard and has the same mannerisms and drive as one.

He gets crated as he can't be left unsupervised. I'm super consistent with him, and he's super stubborn with me. He's about 1.6 years old, and I've yet to get him fully potty trained as nothing works. (hence why he's crated) Catching him in the act then dragging him outside wasn't sufficient as it never clicked for him. So I went with the crate routine; feed, take him out to go, then straight back to the crate. For the most part that works. But if I can't watch him 100%, he gets crated.

He used to never go in the crate. Even when I was working long days, he was really good about holding it. About 4 months ago I got a kitten. Kept them separated by putting his crate in the spare bedroom (also in the spare bedroom as I dislike separation anxiety dogs-people make them that way). As far as separation anxiety goes, there is none. Giving him "alone time" has worked wonders as he doesn't howl when I leave, or anything else that's obnoxious by my going somewhere. He gets along really well with the cat, and the cat thinks he's a play friend. So no issues there. BUT, he started pissing in his crate awhile back. It wasn't consistent though, so I thought he just couldn't hold it. After awhile I started getting extremely angry as 1. it stinks, 2. it's like a gallon of urine, 3. he's old enough to not be doing it, 4. taking him out before leaving for 30 minutes still resulted in a bucket of raunchy smelling urine!!

Well, after awhile I concluded that the cat would go in the room, and then he was peeing in his crate- despite the fact that they play absolutely wonderful together. Never any aggression from him. (last night the cat sneaked in before I closed the door ) Neither he nor the male cat/kitten are fixed. Cat is 5 months old.

Any ideas to stop this? I'm trying to be vigilant and preventing the cat from going in there. The cat likes him and is sneaky, so it's hard to prevent him 100%. I'm thinking about letting the cat in the crate while he's out, then letting both stay in the crate abit to give the cat ownership or something. Also, would getting the dog fixed prevent this? That cat will get fixed when he's a little older. I used to clean the urine up right away, but I've been forcing him to stay in there longer without cleaning due to the fact I'm worried that he'll track it through the house, then the cat might try to get competitive and mark over anything that's getting tracked.

EDIT: Never poops in there, just peeing when cat is in there for a length of time, and my being home or not doesn't seem to matter either.
SO, Dog + Cat + no playtime together = Bucket of Urine

 

[doxiemommy]

A couple of points:
- people don't create separation anxiety in dogs. Yes, there are some situations where people don't teach their dogs to spend time alone and entertain themselves, and to be independent, but, there are also situations where dogs have genuine separation anxiety regardless of their owners.

- catching him in the act and dragging him outside may very well be part of the reason why he's never really caught on to potty training. Being dragged isn't fun. Eventually he will learn that if you CATCH him peeing inside he will be dragged out. That is definitely not going to give him the idea that going outside to pee is good.

- he is definitely picking up on your anger. This isn't going to help him learn what you want him to do instead of peeing in the crate.

To me this sounds like a dog that wants out to play with his friend the cat, and when he can see the cat and can't get out, he gets upset and hyper. Being upset and hyper could cause him to pee, when he could otherwise be able to hold it.

Clean any accidents up with an enzymatic cleaner, not a regular household cleaner. A regular cleaner does well enough for us humans to think it's clean, but a dog has a stronger sense of smell and will know the stain is still there, and be attracted to peeing in that same area.
So, clean any bedding in the crate, and clean the crate, both using an enzymatic cleaner. You can even put 1/2 cup or so of the cleaner in the laundry if you need to wash bedding.

 

[NRB]

what doxy mimmie said and use positive training methods. Ie take him outside and praise him and give him a super tastey treat (bit of hotdog does wonders) when he potties outside. When he potties inside DO NOT REACT, at all. Just be chill, clean the cage and LET IT GO. No anger from you. Nothing. No scolding the dog. Remember to be positive (treat and praise) when he potties outside. Pretty soon he'll catch on that going potty outside is like winning the lottery and all that anxtiety and stress bout going potty inside will go away and he'll have less and less accidents inside.

Seriously you haven't described a stubborn dog, you've just described a confused dog and a slightly traumatized one. You've traumatized him by dragging him outside to pee, who'd want to go outside if they were roughed up to get there? I wouldn't. I'd be scared of you and do my business inside on my own time when you are not around.

 

[Bob Dole]

In all honesty, he was "carried" out once, after walking in the room, and just pissing in front of me. That infuriated me. If you guys/gals can stay calm with that kind of behavior from an adult dog, the more power to you. When he was smaller, I'd take him out directly after eating, and pick him up to finish outside if I caught him inside. (he's too big for that now) As far as stubborn goes, he's one of those dogs that just is at times. Stupid at other times as he rarely lifts his leg and ends up pissing on himself as he won't squat enough. On 2 occasions he was left unattended with free-roam, once as a puppy and once again around 8 months old- no potty but destroyed stuff-never again lol.

People do create insecure dogs as well as harboring an environment where they get "labeled" with separation anxiety (or on the flip side of that they allow the behavior to go unchecked). Praising your dog with excitement after returning home, having the dog's sole focus on yourself (not any of you, just saying in general) will also create this behavior. As well as inappropriate timings for reinforcement "oh, good boy" while he's nervous, you're walking out the door, etc. Smaller dog's typically get treated like "children" instead of dogs and insecurities can be induced. If they were wild and in a pack, they aren't going to be insecure as they'd be the 1st to go. They aren't born with fears-

I'll try giving him treats outdoors as well as getting him fixed soon as I'm not going to breed him. There's not a lot I can do about the cat getting him hyper, other than being more vigilant that the cat remains away unless supervised, as I'm TIRED of wiping up a bunch of piss. I swear, he's got like a reserve tank hidden somewhere. Had other dog's with numerous cats in the past, and this was never an issue before. Thx-

 

[The_Monstors]

My cat tried to get in my bedroom everyday when we first moved in our house so I made a habit of a "cat check". I look under the bed and under the chair before closing the door and look down as I close it. I think its not that hard to keep a cat out.

If the pee makes a mess in the crate, until you can solve the problem, have you thought about a belly band? Then the pee is on a pad that will absorb it instead of all over. Much easier to throw a pad away if he does.

 

[NRB]

I have to ask, why would you breed this dog? He's a cross of unknown origins and you sound like you don't think he's all that in the brain department. Why create more of him?

Neutering might help your pee problems, but I have no hard evidence. Just in general a neuterd dog can be easier to train, live with and etc without the added distractions of hormones. But again I have no experience with un-altered males...

If the dog destroyed everything when left unattended.. do you think he has some seperation anxiety? You know SA spans a spectrum.... some dogs are a little SA some are severe SA and a bunch fall in-between. Was he destroying things during a teething phase? Or when he was older?

And yes, I remain calm when a dog pees in front of me, ok not Zen Monk Calm, I do say "oh my gosh" in a mellow sort of way and realize that the dog was telling me all along that it needed to go outside and pee but I wasn't listening or watching it very well. I don't feel anger at the dog or the situation. I just say opps, and try to get outside as fast as possible without panicing everyone more. I've even had my male pee on me, it was more of a "you silly dog" moment as this male was super duper submissive and a bit daft as well. Sweet, but not Einstein.

 

[doxiemommy]

NRB, the original poster doesn't believe in SA. Unfortunately.
I will stand my ground, though, with the fact that SA does exist. In some dogs, yes, it truly, medically (sometimes), behaviorally does.

I will also admit that the OP does make some accurate points about how the term, separation anxiety is used too loosely by some people. There are lots and lots of folks dealing with a puppy/dog who whines or cries or destroys stuff a little. I can't count the number of times I, or others have told these people that it's NOT separation anxiety, it's most likely just a puppy/dog crying, whining or destroying stuff because it's bored, and you need to deal with it. Real separation anxiety is more severe, and not as common as people think.

I will also admit that, as the OP said, some anxiety issues are created by owners who don't teach their dogs to be independent at times, or that it's ok to play by themselves and entertain themselves sometimes. Not that I don't love being with my dogs every second I can; but it's important that if I need to shower or read or cook, I need my dogs to be ok hanging out by themselves. And, not everyone helps their dogs learn this. Also, praising a nervous dog can cause issues.
So, yes, you make some points. However, SA does exist, in certain dogs, regardless of what their owners do or don't do. Dogs can have chemical imbalances just as people can.

As for the OP's generalization about small dogs, that's a huge generalization that is based on your own personal opinion, not fact.

And, as for your statement about dogs in the wild, in packs, that hasn't occured for hundreds and hundreds of years. Domestication of any animal changes the instinctual behavior of said animal. So, the way a dog in the wild may have behaved hundreds and hundreds of years ago has no link between dogs of today.

Both my dogs I have had since they were 8 weeks old. One dog is extremely upset by motorcycle noises. The other is not. They have been raised basically the same. But, dogs are individuals with their own unique likes, dislikes, an anxieties, just as people. Some dogs are born with aversions to certain noises or to being left alone. It's not just a bunch of pooey.