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What is your opinion of the "line" between someone who has a lot of dogs, and a hoarder?
do you consider a person with 10+ dogs a hoarder? What if they were all very well taken care of?
What about a person who doesnt have 10+ but clearly more than they can afford.
like.. 6 dogs, and they have no flea/heartworm prevention and feed them crappy food..

or is it mostly about vet care and cleanliness?

whats your opinion?
 

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I don't count the numbers but the quality of the dogs life. If they are taken care of meaning

-UTD on shots
-Played with daily
-have a nice warm bed to sleep in
-healthy
-get vet care when needed
-fed daily
-exercised daily

Ect..

Then they are not a hoarder. But if there dogs are living outside in small cages, barley fed, never around humans, never played with, then they are considered a hoarder in my book.
 

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What is your opinion of the "line" between someone who has a lot of dogs, and a hoarder?
do you consider a person with 10+ dogs a hoarder? What if they were all very well taken care of?
What about a person who doesnt have 10+ but clearly more than they can afford.
like.. 6 dogs, and they have no flea/heartworm prevention and feed them crappy food..

or is it mostly about vet care and cleanliness?

whats your opinion?
I try not to go out of my way to call other people names. If they are able and do take care of their pets, its not up to me. I have a number of friends with many pets. I've had up to a dozen at a time. They were well cared for and received necessary and preventative vet care.
 

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I have a lot of cats. They are not "up-to-date" on shots, but this would be true even if I had one cat (I really do think that repeat vaccinations are dangerous for cats). They receive all necessary vet care and whatever else they need. I'm sure some people would call me a hoarder but I don't consider myself to be one.

Hoarding is a mental condition. I have had some family members who were hoarders (not animals, thankfully), and it's a whole different thing than just having a lot of something or being messy. And I've known people who couldn't properly take care of one pet, but I wouldn't say they were hoarders. Some people just aren't good at caring for pets (usually ignorance, sometimes deliberate neglect).
 

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What is your opinion of the "line" between someone who has a lot of dogs, and a hoarder?
do you consider a person with 10+ dogs a hoarder? What if they were all very well taken care of?
What about a person who doesnt have 10+ but clearly more than they can afford.
like.. 6 dogs, and they have no flea/heartworm prevention and feed them crappy food..

or is it mostly about vet care and cleanliness?

whats your opinion?

Hoarding is a mental illness - numbers alone will never tell you that. Even condition won't - because there are people out there who are just animal abusing jerks. Puppy millers are not hoarders.

Hoarding is more than that - a lot more. It's - being unaware of the condition their animals are in. Thinking they're saving them. Being unable to let them go to better homes; panic/desperation when they are removed/delusions that they, the hoarder, is going to have something hellacious happen to them if they are gone. Unhealthy levels of attachment. The COMPULSION to get more, and to keep adding, regardless of what it is doing to their life/home. Lack of awareness of the the conditions THEY are likely living in.

It's got nothing to do with animals, frankly. Some people hoard pets. Some people hoard food. Some people hoard EVERYTHING.

And it's a diagnosis best made by a mental health care professional. Animals in hoarding situations need help, absolutely, and so do animals in puppy mills and at the end of chains in backyards. But Hoarding is a mental health diagnosis, and I am getting really tired of seeing it thrown around like an insult or shorthand for 'someone who has too many pets and neglects them'. (Not snappy at you, OP, just the entire social/cultural thing going on with it.)

Hoarding is a mental condition. I have had some family members who were hoarders (not animals, thankfully), and it's a whole different thing than just having a lot of something or being messy. And I've known people who couldn't properly take care of one pet, but I wouldn't say they were hoarders. Some people just aren't good at caring for pets (usually ignorance, sometimes deliberate neglect).
+1.

Thank you.
 

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Yeah I have to agree with those that are saying that hoarding is a mental illness, because it very much is.

It really has nothing to do with amount of animals. The care of the animals is a sign, but it's not the whole picture, just a piece.
 

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Kind of-off topic but is therapy usually the only way to "help" the "illness"? Or is there medicine people can take?
 

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Kind of-off topic but is therapy usually the only way to "help" the "illness"? Or is there medicine people can take?
Hoarding is basically a kind of obsessive/compulsive disorder, but there are usually concurrent conditions -anxiety, depression, ptsd, stuff. So, medication can help, but like most mental health issues, it works best when it's combined with therapy, and (of course) a good support system. The real heck of it is, without appropriate treatment -recurring a big thing. You take all the stuff away (animals, possessions, even garbage) away and clean up their home, and that's great. But all that's really going to do without getting them ongoing help (therapy, meds, etc.) is going to do is panic them, make them feel ashamed, and start the whole cycle of collecting again. Shitty, shitty situation.
 

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I imagine anti-OCD drugs might help, but very few psychiatric drugs are fully effective without proper therapy.
 

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I have a lot of dogs, even more cats, and a ferret. The cats are indoor only and they get their yearly rabies but that's usually it. However, I don't consider myself to be a hoarder. I've never heard my friends or co-workers label me as a hoarder either. ...They just think I'm crazy, nuts, and think that I waste my money on my animals, lol.

I agree with the mental illness as well. Hoarders don't see a "line". They never put constructive thought into bringing in another dog (or any other animal) and how that would effect them. They just continue to add animals for various reasons. Usually, when they do have a reason, the reason is in their own benefit, not the dog's. ...And that kinda really goes for any hoarder, they rarely see the "line". Now there are hoarders that do realize there is a line, but for some reason seem to be unable of helping themselves. ...Part of that mental illness issue.

Being able to do everything else, as Momtolabs mentioned earlier, is important as well - but that's on any number of dogs (pets). I know of one person, personally, who has ONE dog and her dog lives on a dirt pad, chained to/near her dog house ... and she just gave birth to 7 puppies of an oops litter. Hoarder - no, not the best owner - yes. I would not throw dog food choice into a "hoarder equation" either. LOTS of people feed their dogs (including single dog families) the crappy food. One single dog owner nearly had a heart attack when she found out what food I buy for my dogs, and I don't even buy the best of the best. As for shots, there seems to be a wide spectrum of opinions on repetitive shots.
 

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I agree it doesn't neccessarily have anything to do with numbers, although I do think there is number out there beyond which no one could keep up, I just can't say what it is. For the most part "how many" depends on a persons income, the hours they work, whether or not they have help, space, motivation, etc. Are the animals healthy and the environment clean? Not neccessarily utd on shots, as my vet doesn't even recommend yearly vacs anymore, but are they fed without personal hardship, litterboxes scooped, the area free of urine and feces, space available to run around, individual time spent with the animals, no fleas, worms, or health problems, and can the owner provide vet care for illnesses or emergencies if needed? Are the animals spayed or neutered? Those are the things that concern me. I watched a few episodes of animal hoarders recently and some of the things that struck me were treatable illnesses left untreated, unaltered animals breeding unchecked, animals peeing/pooing wherever they wanted to, animals running all over eachother with barely any space to move, and people spending their entire paychecks on petfood.
 

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I draw the line when care and quality of life starts diminishing. When people have so many dogs they can no longer feed them properly, interact with them properly, vet them properly, when people have no more time, money or will to keep up with their animals, yet they get more, that's when I draw the line.

As for this, "and feed them crappy food.." not everyone can afford to feed their pets top quality food. My animals don't eat expensive food, because I cannot afford it (I don't eat any better than they do either) yet they are all in good weight, have nice coats, nice skin, no allergies, no upsets. I wouldn't call myself a hoarder or a bad owner because I can't pay top dollar for dog food, but I would consider myself a bad owner if I sat back and let my dogs become grossly overweight or underweight because I didn't feed them.
 

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I don't know if some of you are referring to my post or not but with the food,I can't pay top notch either. I meant maybe fed three times a week because the owner has so many dogs they can not afford to feed them all. And thinks Cptjack.
 

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There was an episode of Animal Cops in which the woman had a bunch of cats and was feeding them oatmeal and rice (out of poverty or ignorance, I don't know). Of course they were all very sick and suffering from taurine deficiency and had to be PTS. But all pet food available in normal stores (as far I know anyway) is AAFCO approved and therefore won't cause acute deficiencies. So as long as they're feeding their pets an AAFCO-approved commercial food, I wouldn't call that neglect, no matter how crummy I think that brand is. And, yeah, I know plenty of people who feed their one pet store-brand kibble, because they think it's just as good as anything else. . .
 

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Hoarding is a mental illness - numbers alone will never tell you that. Even condition won't
I agree with this. Numbers won't tell the whole story, and neither will condition or treatment. Both of those things can provide clues, but they are symptoms of a problem, and they won't show up in all cases. I know people who take very good care of all of their pets, feeding great food, providing proper exercise, space, and time, and who I would still consider to have a problem.

I recently overheard someone with 10 dogs of her own admiring someone else's sports dog. What she said disturbed me: she expressed the desire to steal the dog she was admiring, rather than just admiring its athletic ability from afar. Now, I'm sure she wasn't serious (she's not a criminal), but it seemed to me that she lacked the ability to admire something without wanting to make it hers. In my book she's a hoarder, though I don't think her pets are in any particular need of help.

Another hoarding-type situation that I've seen that I find really disturbing also involves someone who takes good care of her animals. With this particular person, the issue seems to be one of attachment. Essentially, she's willing to swap out dogs, always "trading up" for the newer/smaller/younger/pure-bred model, scattering the ones she's tired of into new homes, rescues, and shelters. Makes me sick.
 

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Hoarding is a mental illness. People with a lot of dogs don't necessarily have mental illnesses. I think more then 2 dogs is excessive but that is relative-- that's a personal opinion of mine-- I know I couldn't handle owning more then two lol
 

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Hoarding is a mental illness. People with a lot of dogs don't necessarily have mental illnesses. I think more then 2 dogs is excessive but that is relative-- that's a personal opinion of mine-- I know I couldn't handle owning more then two lol
To be honest? I couldn't if I didn't live with other people. Come to think of it, I couldn't own more than one. I. Need the dogs to not outnumber capable/competent humans in the house. For us that's three. (youngest kid is autistic and does not count - neurotypical teenager sort of does; he's a warm body with a brain that usually functions, anyway). But yeah. That one's personal.
 

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To be honest? I couldn't if I didn't live with other people. Come to think of it, I couldn't own more than one. I. Need the dogs to not outnumber capable/competent humans in the house. For us that's three. (youngest kid is autistic and does not count - neurotypical teenager sort of does; he's a warm body with a brain that usually functions, anyway). But yeah. That one's personal.
Same situation. My daughter is autistic as well and more then one dog isn't doable for me. That would be complete insanity... lol
 

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Discussion Starter #20
thank you all for the replies!
 
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