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I guess I can be called that. I live in Florida along with my hubby and my daughter, she happens to be my little mini-me.

I'm an FCR groupie because I only know what I've been told about the FCR from fellow groupies. I really don't know much about their history nor do I know much about their current health problems in our modern times.

I do know, that only the Black ones and Liver ones are the healthy ones, because that's what all the breeders I know say. I really trust they know what they're talking about because...Well. They've been doing it so long, they gotta know what they're doing.

I know the Yellow FCR's are gross. They are not FCR's. they are a mistake of nature.

I know FCr should only be expected to live about 9 years or less. And that they should come down with cancer before they are 3 years old. That's just the way it is. Since my breeders have been doing this for so long... They know this is just normal.

I prefer dogs that are line bred. And like breeders choose one of several females for the one lucky boy they championed in the show circuits. This is the best way to keep their bloodlines pure. Like my own dog. The mother and father were closely related so the look and temperament of the puppies would be just like the parents. That's because FCR breeders have been doing this for so long and managed to keep the dogs always looking the same.
ITs how I prefer things.

I'm glad to be a part of these forums now. I can share with you what I know and maybe learn more from others.
 

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I know the Yellow FCR's are gross. They are not FCR's. they are a mistake of nature.
Here is your first lesson

Yellow FCR are not a "mistake of nature" It is a color that is a Disqualification in the breed. It is one of the oldest colors in the breed, it is a leftover color from back when the FCR and the GR split bloodlines. Yellow is very hard to get rid of in a bloodline because it is a recessive trait which cannot be seen until it pops up in a litter in it's homozygous state. Yellow is also no less healthy than black or liver.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That's not what FCR breeders say... And I tend to believe them since they've been doing this far too long.. Yellows are riddled with disease and bad genetics
 

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Something tells me someone has been talking to less than stellar breeders..
 

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Oh my, where to start.

I've had Flatcoats for 17 years and have bred several litters. I work with a few mentors in the US and Canada that have had Flatcoats for 40 years or more, as well as breeders in the UK and Holland that have been in the breed for more than a half a century. While I don't know everything--far from it--I can address some of your statements with confidence, not because I have only heard about the breed, but because I have lived and breathed it for so long!

Yellow is just a color. Period. Yellow Flatcoats ARE a disqualifying color. That is it. They aren't genetically different in other ways, are not at all gross, are NOT a mistake of nature. Just yellow. They certainly don't carry any more health issues than any other Flatcoat, and I've met several delightful yellows.

Flatcoats can live a lot longer than 9, although the breed average is somewhere between 7 and 8. Average lifespan of my lines and those of my mentors is well into double-digits. Having said that, there is a cancer problem in the breed and it does strike when and where it will. Any Flatcoat breeder worth their salt knows this and would do just about anything to change it. We contribute very heavily in terms of money, tissue samples, blood samples, pedigrees and whatever we can in order to learn as much as possible and hopefully someday beat cancer. I know of NO responsible Flatcoat breeder that believes cancer is "just normal." We hate it and want to do away with it.

Linebreeding and outcrossing both have their place in a breeding program, when used judiciously.

You plainly say that you don't know much about Flatcoat history or current health problems. History can be found all over the internet. Check out the Flat-Coated Retriever Society of America's website or the Flatcoated Retriever Society in the UK to read more.

As for health issues: Cancer, hip dysplasia, elbow dysplasia, luxating patella, epilepsy, thyroid problems, allergies, glaucoma, kidney problems. Those are the biggies.

I suggest you do some more research and reading! We have a delightful breed that does, unfortunately, come with some issues. We all try to do the best we can to work towards improving!
 

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thanks, Wabanafcr for correcting the misinformation. I do not have an FCR and had no idea they could come in yellow.
 

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thanks, Wabanafcr for correcting the misinformation. I do not have an FCR and had no idea they could come in yellow.
Yup, at one time FCRs came in all the same colors as Labradors. The color genetics are the same.

Just as in Labs, there is no advantage or disadvantage to being yellow vs. brown ("liver" or "chocolate") vs. black...just another color.

When the Golden Retrievers split into their own breed, the yellow dogs became Golden Retrievers instead of FCRs. Since yellow is recessive, as Keechak said, it was very simple for Goldens to only produce more Goldens, but the remaining black and liver FCRs still carried (and still do carry) yellow.

Not a big deal and even I know of and have met some some nice yellows in my limited time in the breed. So not common but not unheardof either. They are certainly not gross, they just aren't showable in the conformation ring since yellow is a DQ. And since it's extremely unlikely that an entire litter would be yellow (since the parents were almost surely black or liver and each of the average 6-8 pups has only a 1 in 4 chance of being yellow) it's often easy to find future breeders in the black or liver siblings if the cross produced traits the breeder wants to pass on.

As for the rest of the OP -- I do hope they do their research and talk to folks knowledgeable in the breed. Wabana the health and breeding topics thoroughly already but if you are interested in more information there is a wealth of information online via the breeds clubs in many countries and the FCR health studies and databases.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I learn from my breeders that yellow is nothing but problems. And that you only want Liver or Black that have been carefully line bred to related dogs to maintain the look and health of that line. It's threat the FCR breeders have been doing for years. So I would think these kinds of dogs existed naturally and were then bred to serve man.

I know my dogs are healthy since their Mother and father are cousins and still alive. Their father is the same one who has many trophies and titles. He was pretty popular and used to make the litters for all three of my dogs.

My breeder will even help me to have a litter with my one boy and the two half sisters we have now.

Which we are waiting and excited about.
 

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I learn from my breeders that yellow is nothing but problems.
Yellows can show up in a litter along with different colors. Are your breeders claiming that the other pups in the litter would be healthy and that the yellows would have health issues? Does that make sense to you?

Yellow is just a color in the breed. Yellows cannot be shown, but the color is not linked to deafness or blindness or temperament issues or any other problems. It's just a color.
 

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Well my breeders tell me it is just that way. yellows are a health problem. I have no reason to believe otherwise... They have been doing this for decades. They know.
 

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Well my breeders tell me it is just that way. yellows are a health problem. I have no reason to believe otherwise... They have been doing this for decades. They know.
I personally think you have your head in the sand but whatever works for you. Believe what they say and lotsa luck.
 

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I personally think you have your head in the sand but whatever works for you. Believe what they say and lotsa luck.
I have to Agree...
 

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I think these are quite strange things to come from a breeder. Mind PMing who your breeder is or a website? I have no intent to share with any one, I just hear the FCR community is very tight knit and this would not be the norm to be coming from them.
 

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I think these are quite strange things to come from a breeder. Mind PMing who your breeder is or a website? I have no intent to share with any one, I just hear the FCR community is very tight knit and this would not be the norm to be coming from them.

I have to agree I can not see things like this coming from any reputable breeder.
 

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I have to agree I can not see things like this coming from any reputable breeder.
Like I said, I've been in the breed for many years, with mentors that have been in it for over half a century. While I don't know anyone reputable that breeds FOR yellow, if it happens it happens. I've NEVER heard anyone say that yellows have additional health problems and would love concrete details and statistics instead of "that is what they say and they must know." Proof, please!
 

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Just like in the Dane world. Most do not breed for Blue Fawns, Chocolate Brindles, or Tan Pointed Blacks but they can and do happen from time to time, even with the most reputable of breeders. Genetically speaking pups of these colors are no more prone to health related issues than that of their standard colored parents and/or siblings. Typically speaking, from what I have learned the only time you have an issue based on color is when a dog inherits a double Merle gene (which can cause deafness, blindness, as well as, other deformities and/or death.)
 
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