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At least you didn't use the rolling eyes icon this time.
Well I try to keep the emoticons down to a minimum :p:D:eek::cool:

Yeah i was saying what could have happened, just from my experience...

From what i've read about keechak, she seems to know dogs pretty well and I think what she did was sensible considering the didn't know the dog and Unknown dogs could be possibly anything temperament wise.
My horse had a $4000 vet bill and emotional and massive physical scarring after an unknown bull terrier chased her with me on her through a barbed wire fence and then proceeded to tear her and i to pieces. Now I never walk away, i always yell go home or no, it hasn't failed yet.
 

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You never did answer my question: what do you think would have happened if you'd kept walking and just ignored the dog?
Frankly, Loup, she doesn't owe you any answer at all.

If you remember, I said that standing and waiting would be just as confrontational (if not moreso).
Then what would you have her do, exactly? She does not know this dog or any training it has or hasn't had.

There is a pack of dogs down the road from me and they are a clear danger to other dogs in the neighborhood. More than once they've rushed me and have tried to harm my dogs if we are out walking. I've used my growly voice on them and it seems to help keep them away from me.
How hypocritical to question Keechak when you have done the same thing yourself.

The OP said that she growled a "No!" at it and that it responded to her "command." "No!" is not a command; rather, it is a reprimand.
It's not her dog, it's not her job to train this dog. It is, however, her job to protect her dogs, which is what she did.

I'm not sure why I should be impressed with the OP being Keechak.
She is an active and respected member on this forum.
 

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Discussion Starter #23 (Edited)
You never did answer my question: what do you think would have happened if you'd kept walking and just ignored the dog?
After the fact of learning the dogs personality type I would say the dog would have followed us down the road sniffing my dogs butts.

At the time before the fact, I would be afraid of the dog running to bite one of us.

I would have probably kept walking but when the dog growled with lips pursed forward I wasn't taking chances of turning my back.

The dog's temperament didn't change rapidly from aggression to happy go lucky but writing down all the small cues the dog was giving me would take forever.
 

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Frankly, Loup, she doesn't owe you any answer at all.
No, she doesn't owe me anything, but it would be nice if people didn't answer for other people, thinking that their answers substitute for the answer of the person being asked. They don't and it's presumptuous to think that they do.

Then what would you have her do, exactly? She does not know this dog or any training it has or hasn't had.
Dogs, in general, respond to avoidance behaviors by walking away. I wanted to find out what she thought about the idea of using an avoidance behavior instead of being assertive/aggressive, which I feel is a riskier course with an unknown dog.

How hypocritical to question Keechak when you have done the same thing yourself.
I made it clear that the dogs I used that technique with are clearly dangerous to my dogs--they have, in fact, gone so far as to charge me and have actually put their mouths on my dogs (most of my dogs weigh less than eight pounds and the dangerous dogs range from about 30 to 50 pounds). There are also several dogs that approach at the same time AND it is becoming customary for those of us with small dogs to carry sticks or bats with us when we walk our dogs. That's a big difference between a single apparently non-aggressive dog growling (growling a warning is not being aggressive) at a pair of dogs from six feet away. This is what I posted in its entirety and I see nothing hypocritical in what I said:

Right, *if* the dog was aggressive. I guess I'm trying to figure out why you felt compelled to growl at the dog, which could have been construed as an attack? Has the dog ever shown signs of aggression before?

I'm not necessarily critical of people who use a growly voice at dogs that are loose. There is a pack of dogs down the road from me and they are a clear danger to other dogs in the neighborhood. More than once they've rushed me and have tried to harm my dogs if we are out walking. I've used my growly voice on them and it seems to help keep them away from me. I wonder, though, if you didn't just jump the gun a bit? A growly voice is just like any other tool a trainer has--although you can't be considered to be training another person's dog in that situation, if you can't/won't back up a "command," then you shouldn't use it.

It's not her dog, it's not her job to train this dog. It is, however, her job to protect her dogs, which is what she did.
Agreed--and I even said that she couldn't be considered to be the other dog's trainer:

--although you can't be considered to be training another person's dog in that situation, if you can't/won't back up a "command," then you shouldn't use it.
However, the fact is that if she can't back up a "command" (and I reiterate that "no" is not a command), then she should not be giving any command for the dog to leave. An avoidance behavior is not a sign of weakness, since all it does is prevent a confrontation without having to concede anything to the other dog. I question the wisdom of asserting oneself as being the other dog's "equal" and giving an empty "command" that had to be walked away from. Dogs push and escalate behaviors and I wonder if she's not set the stage for a future confrontation that might not be as pleasant.

She is an active and respected member on this forum.
And Cesar Milan has a critically acclaimed television show. I don't know him, I don't like his training techniques, and all the information that I have about him is that which I've read in print on a page or on a website. Your point would be . . . ?

Next time I wish you would just respond to my post as a whole rather than strip mining it as you did the one above. I really hate wasting my time responding in kind--it just takes too much energy to be sure that I've covered all of the points the other person has made and simply takes up too much space . . .
 

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Loup

However, the fact is that if she can't back up a "command" (and I reiterate that "no" is not a command), then she should not be giving any command for the dog to leave. An avoidance behavior is not a sign of weakness, since all it does is prevent a confrontation without having to concede anything to the other dog. I question the wisdom of asserting oneself as being the other dog's "equal" and giving an empty "command" that had to be walked away from. Dogs push and escalate behaviors and I wonder if she's not set the stage for a future confrontation that might not be as pleasant.
I really don't disagree with anything posted on here, that being said doing the no command (and since I am one of those sit means sit trainers) can at least make the oncoming dog ponder a bit about the situation. No it can't be enforced in anyway and escalation is possible for sure. But once owner is warned and hopefully being a tad smarter than the 4 legged oncoming rascal that was just stopped this time, a new walking route or a cattle prod/sniper rifle purchase would help in eliminating future problems. No I don't want dog killed, just tossing the rifle purchase in reply to confuse the issue.:D
 

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Five dogs and a person all postured aggressively/assertively helps immensely.
Unless you come across the Westie that lives a few blocks away from me. That dog thinks he can take on the world. :rolleyes:
 

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Terriers...what can ya do? xD
 
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