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If those regular families gentically health test their dogs, and their dogs have excellent temperaments...that would be decent. But reputable breeders don't advertise, so you probably won't find that.

You would be buying from a BYB, which usually don't breed for temperament or health, so you could end up with a messed up dog, it does happen.

Reputable breeders, you have a pretty much almost perfect chance of having a very healthy, and tempermentally sound dog. Although sometimes problems occur, but they are few if the breeder knows that they are doing, and has good breeding stock.
Actually, I know REPUTABLE BREEDERS who do advertise. And still screen homes carefully and all that jazz.

*shrugs* it can and is done.
 

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Out of curiousity, if she's just had a litter, why would she be out being bred again already? Mom should atleast be on the premises, don't you think? I can understand dad not being there, if a stud service was used. However, on the other hand, if I were using a stud service, I would have to get to know that dog, and the owners well enough that they'd want to be around to see where the puppies are going..their dog had part in it too, and I'm sure I wouldn't want to breed my dog with another dog owned by people who are just in it for money..if that makes sense. I tend to go more towards breeders who own both parents, anyway. That kind of ensures all of the thought and tests, and shows me what my potential puppy may be like, by watching momma and daddy act in their environment together.
Well the female would not be bred again :rolleyes: (most females go into heat approx every 6 months anyway).. but the male can and probably would be with his owner either in the ring or if finished he would probably be in the process of being studded out to another b*tch.The female could be in the ring on the show circuit so she could not be around..Like I said that would not be a red flag to me with a reputable show breeder.I did own my own males at one time but after I retired and re-homed my one male I decided to ship my girls out to champion males.If I get a top male then yes I would keep whatever show quality I had from him (male or female) BUT if you keep a male on premises just to breed to every b*tch then you will not improve your line you will produce the same quality pups...and you will back yourself into a bloodline corner.

A Mate should be selected based on how he compliments the partner and the bloodline potential ...not because the owner owns both dogs or because Parents are on premises.



Like I mentioned before, we rarely see puppies over $750 in Connecticut, unless you are walking into a pet store..(gag.).. So that's where my question came from. Roxy was $600..very healthy puppy, parents on premises, proof of health tests, proof of vaccines, proof of bloodlines. Actually, her parents had excellent patellas, which luxating patellas are a big deal for Paps, so that was exciting..I was also able to watch her parents play in the yard with the puppies, and take a run through an agility course that was set up in the backyard. Needless to say, her breeder was awesome, inexpensive, and still fully involved with the puppy (wants to see pictures, hear stories and progress, and offered to take her back no matter how old she is, if at some point in our lives, we can no longer care for her)..I'd do business with her again in a heartbeat..
Some breeds do go for "cheaper" then other breeds it's just a fact.(The Boston's around her go for $1000.00 on up but my American Bulldog was only $500.00 from a great breeder)

But for the care required for my breed Boston Terriers (C-sections,stud fees,vet cost's ect..) and where I live I would not let my puppies go for under $1000.00 and if a client has a problem with paying that, I tell them to go to the shelter and pick out there new family member (or another breeder or rescue).And you see I can do this because I get enough interest in our litters that the demand definitely out weights the supply.My up-coming litter is most likely already placed in homes of my circuit friends (because these pups will be very nice) and most likely none will go to pet homes.

 

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I've no problem with them breeding companion dogs instead of show dogs (indeed, I prefer it, but that's another thread), but the same standards on breeding practices would still apply. I could care less about conformation standards, but health screenings are at the heart of responsible breeding practices. As others have mentioned, I didn't see any information about OFA/CERF screenings for the sire/dam; normally, that should be front and center. If they didn't get the screenings, or they decided to breed despite bad ratings, go somewhere else.

I don't think their meeting rules are completely out of line, but if they're really concerned about spreading disease, I'd insist on being able to at least observe both the litter and the parents, and to inspect the kennel.
 

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- Check for cleanliness, ex) Floors are mopped, house doesn't reek of feces, puppies are more then likely in their own seperate area of the house where they cannot be harmed or get into anything.
Mine won't be in their "own separate area". They'll be monitored with the rest of the dogs/people (not constantly, but they certainly won't be segregated).

-Parents on premises. Who wants to buy a puppy where the parents are no where around and you'll have no idea what the puppy may grow up to look like, or what it's possible temperment could be? You're spending all kinds of money and deserve to know those kinds of things, OTHERWISE you might as well find a puppy at a shelter for much less of the $$.
How much do you really know about breeding? If the stud dog isn't there because he's off showing or being bred to another bitch, what are you to do about it? It's not uncommon for dad not to be there.

Dad won't be available for anybody to meet for my first litter because I don't own him. But I'VE met him and I know him to be of sound body, mind, and temperament.

The sire of my second litter won't be available for viewing either, as I do not own him. But I have met him and handled him, and know him to be of sound mind, body, and temperament.

BTW, anyone else think $1000 for a companion pup from a breeder is crazy?
No. My Shepherd pet puppies will probably run $1000-1200
 

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I'm looking for a healthy companion dog, not for show, but I'm sure show dogs have better health than the average dog.

Not sure if there is a difference in health. I'm sure someone will chime in here but why not look to a Westie rescue group since your looking for a companion dog and not a show dog. You could save money and at the same time help a pup out.
 

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How much do you really know about breeding? If the stud dog isn't there because he's off showing or being bred to another bitch, what are you to do about it? It's not uncommon for dad not to be there.

Dad won't be available for anybody to meet for my first litter because I don't own him. But I'VE met him and I know him to be of sound body, mind, and temperament.

The sire of my second litter won't be available for viewing either, as I do not own him. But I have met him and handled him, and know him to be of sound mind, body, and temperament.
In another post of mine, I said I can understand Dad not being there, especially if a stud service was used.

I do not breed, so obviously I'm not a professional breeder know-it-all..I simply stated what I look for in a breeder.

I do however think that it is important for mom to be with her litter and seen with her litter.

If you read my other post, I explained further what I meant by everything I said.
 

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I do however think that it is important for mom to be with her litter and seen with her litter.
Also not always an option.

Sometimes, as another poster stated, mom will be leased by another breeder, and will be bred and will whelp at the other breeder's house. The owner of the bitch still has puppies for sale (depending on the contract), but mom will not be at the house.

I have to split my first litter with the co-owner of the bitch. The people that end up with their half of the litter won't get to meet the mother.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
I found two breeders with westies available right now, one going for $750 (probably BYB), and one for $2000, coming from a show dog litter. I'm having some trouble convincing myself to purchase the $2000 pup, but will likely cave some time soon =). Both are 9 weeks old so I'll have to make a decision soon whether or not to pick it up.
 

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I found two breeders with westies available right now, one going for $750 (probably BYB), and one for $2000, coming from a show dog litter. I'm having some trouble convincing myself to purchase the $2000 pup, but will likely cave some time soon =). Both are 9 weeks old so I'll have to make a decision soon whether or not to pick it up.
Save yourself some money and spend the $2000.
 

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I found two breeders with westies available right now, one going for $750 (probably BYB), and one for $2000, coming from a show dog litter. I'm having some trouble convincing myself to purchase the $2000 pup, but will likely cave some time soon =). Both are 9 weeks old so I'll have to make a decision soon whether or not to pick it up.
ONLY buy from the show breeder IF the parents are fully health tested. Honestly, at times even show breeders aren't ethical breeders. For 2000.00 you should be getting the full package, health temperament and conformation.

Here is a list of health concerns with this breed, straight from the Breed club. It's one of the longest I've seen even compared to English Bulldogs, which are notorious for health problems.
http://www.westieclubamerica.com/health/concerns.html
 

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Carla, some of the 'really long lists' are because the breed club puts a lot of money into research. :p That's one of the reasons some breeds have such an apparently short list- the parent club has not proven (or does not acknowlege) that a common problem is genetic.
 

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That's another reason I reccomend a breed specific forum as well. There's always TONS of info on health, training, and who the good breeders are as well as who (what lines) to stay FAR away from!
 

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Right now, I think you have to trust your gut, not your heart. I know you want to have a puppy now, but you clearly have reservations about this breeder. You owe it to yourself to hold out a little longer.


There's a breeder in my general region (trying to be vague here) who is well known and who has some pretty big name clients. I landed on her website early on in my dog search and all the bolded, underlined, and italicized instructions and demands threw me through a loop.

Some of her rules were pretty standard. Some were really strange. I assume her list of rules meant she was a top breeder. In reality, she's a fantastic business woman who has been able to place her dogs in ways that have brought her a lot of publicity and a lot of money.

The website that had me in awe now has me laughing.
 

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Discussion Starter #55
Just to let you guys know, I put down a deposit for pup who will cost around $2000. He'll be picked up at the end of July and I can't wait to take him in as a part of our family!
 

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I agree with most everyone, it does sound iffy.

Once puppies turn 5 weeks old, they are given the shots, dewormers, and the medications they need to be protected from stuff they can pick up off of the ground or other surfaces. So why they won't let you see them until they are 8 weeks (assuming that's when you're picking them up) sounds like crap to me, to be honest.

I just got my puppy from a VERY good breeder. They allowed us to handle Deezel when he was four weeks old and then let us put him on the ground to play when he turned 5 1/2 weeks (because he had those shots/meds). We had full visiting rights, meaning we could have gone to see him every day if we wanted to (and boy did I want to!), and had the choice of making a down payment or waiting until pick-up day to pay full price.

Also, a good breeder should NEVER sell their puppies over the internet. If their website is simply for advertising and information, that's okay, but if they are selling them on there, no good.

Edit: Oops I apologize for not reading this thread fully ^ ^;
 

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It is a good thing that you did not go directly to doing transactions with the dog breeder. Indeed, the website does seem like it is wants the least exposure of their processes as possible. Dog breeder scams have been very prevalent. These scams work via internet, with breeders based overseas. They usually require check payments, and quite similar to that site you visited, does not require the buyer to view the animal. Be extra cautious about sending your check. Opt for local breeders to be safe.
 

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Price isn't the main factor here, neither is scamming. The main factor is whether that 2,000 dollar "show" dog has healthy, genetically tested parents with good temperaments, not just all its shots and deworming medicine. If you can get one for 500 dollars, that has all that, same thing. Showing isn't the main factor either, health and temperament really are, unless you want to show.

Also, a good breeder should NEVER sell their puppies over the internet. If their website is simply for advertising and information, that's okay, but if they are selling them on there, no good.
I agree, the breeder should want to talk to you extensively, if not make it a must that they meet you in person. Some ship oversees, but they want references, photos, numbers, and probably want to know you for more than a day, as they care where their puppies go.
 
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