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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,

I am currently doing research on westie breeders, and am planning on picking one up within the next month or two.

From the research I have done, including the article by Dr. Ian Dunbar posted right here in DF, there are a couple main things to do before picking up a dog:

1) visit the litter and see if they are socializing and outgoing
2) ask the breeder questions regarding the dog's health history
3) make sure the dog is raised at home, not in kennels or from pet stores

This website states that we are NOT allowed to see the puppies beforehand due to the risk of contaminating the dogs with parvovirus/disturbing the mom and puppies etc. We have to pay a non refundable deposit to reserve and see the dogs before picking them up. The puppies are raised in a kennel.

It sounds to me that this breeder is doing all things breeders should NOT be doing. However, I have been told that they have a good reputation as westie breeders.

Any comments on whether this breeder sounds reliable?

Thanks a bunch!

(If I am allowed to post the website up, please let me know. Some forums do not allow this b/c it's a form of advertising etc.)
 

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Hmmmm....I can understand a breeder not wanting everybody in town tromping through their kennels, but I do think that after talking to someone, they should have a good idea of how serious they are and allow the serious potential buyers to see the litter.

And I'm not entirely against the dogs being kenneled (because even good breeders may have too many dogs to realistically keep inside). Although I would want the pups to be raised indoors, particularly for pups intended to be housepets.

Are they willing to answer your questions? If not, I wouldn't buy from them. Just because they have a good reputation doesn't mean they're ethical breeders.

Here's another link, keep in mind these guidelines aren't set in stone, just somethign to think about: http://www.dogforums.com/2-general-dog-forum/7077-finding-good-dog-breeder.html

ETA: I'm pretty sure you can post the website. Lots of other people have done it anyway, and none of their posts got deleted.
 

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Kennelling isn't ideal, but to me, the red flag is that the deposit is non-refundable. I don't necessarily think that's a terrible thing but I *DO* think that you haven't met the dogs in question prior to picking up your pup is a red flag.

Westies aren't exactly a rare breed- I'd keep looking.
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
Thanks for the replies.

I looked at the "Finding a good dog breeder" thread, and there are a couple points in which this breeder violates, including:
- extremely strict booked appointments
- they breed bulldogs along with westies (not necessarily bad I guess)
- no visitations prior to puppy pickup, where a non-refundable deposit must be given first, so I may not be able to view the other pups other than the one I reserved
-they accept cash only, no cheques or money orders

I'll ask about those other questions and see how they respond.
 

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Well....

- extremely strict booked appointments
That's actually pretty standard. I would be SERIOUSLY pissed and not let someone in if they just showed up. My house is NOT a petting zoo or open for show and tell. This is nothing to do with conditions- this is due to the fact that it is MY HOUSE. I'm not a business or anything like that. I'm flexible in when people want to come by, but just dropping by is NOT an option.

- they breed bulldogs along with westies (not necessarily bad I guess)
No, not necessarily - a lot of folks ARE involved in two breeds and it's almost more common than not. Most people whose lives are totally around dogs either are involved in a REALLY versatile breed that gives them lots of different ways to compete with that breed, have been involved with other brreeds in the past or in the future, or have a second (or in a few cases, even third) breed that's very different from their primary breed. I have collies and a German Spitz - the spitz is something I can owner handle (in UKC - the breed isn't AKC yet) and is a totally different experience.

- no visitations prior to puppy pickup, where a non-refundable deposit must be given first, so I may not be able to view the other pups other than the one I reserved

I may or may not let people visit when the litter is on the ground because of disease concerns- I'll let friends and family who I KNOW understand and will obey my quarantine restrictions (no stopping ANYWHERE near other dogs with no vaccination histories on the way to my house- not even on the same day, and if you've got a dog at your own house that's questionable (for example, a new rescue from the shelter), you'll have to wait till the pups have had their shots. And this is all case-by-case, so I can boil it down to "No visiting babies unless I say so." I also don't necessarily plan to let everyone meet all the puppies. I'm not QUITE as strict about doing the picking for folks as some folks are, but I'm not exactly going to turn out all the puppies and say "Here, take your pick."

-they accept cash only, no cheques or money orders

THIS one bothers me. Frankly, by the time someone is taking a puppy home from me, I should know them well enough to be comfortable with a check or MO. This is true for rescues, too.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
We'll be checking out the puppy tomorrow. Hopefully everything turns out well. Apparently this person is a very very reputable breeder, so we'll check it out.
 

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We'll be checking out the puppy tomorrow. Hopefully everything turns out well. Apparently this person is a very very reputable breeder, so we'll check it out.
Honestly, there is zero chance of that. I'm not trying to be mean, just trying to help you avoid a costly decision.
 

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My dog's breeder took a check for a deposit but requested cash for the remaining amount.

I thought that was alright, being that people could try to pull a fast one and stop payment or give a rubber check.....ya never know, once burned, twice shy...
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Through email communication, she has allowed a visit to the pup w/o payment. Hopefully the littermates are not all sold yet. The mother will be there.

They sound like a nice family, and they seem more lax then how they portrayed themselves on the website.

Other than the "cash only" policy (which is somewhat understandable, like ValtheAussie said, once burned, twice shy), what should I look out for? A receipt can be given if I request for one.

The price for the pup is $1000+tax, CDN dollars.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I can PM the site to anyone who's interested. THe forum rules says my account may be banned if I post any kind of breeder info out.
 

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I just looked at their website. A few points.

1. It doesn't look like they health test except for making sure the puppies are healthy.

2. They have too many conditions as far as taking back a puppy because of poor health. The really weird condition was that the puppy can only eat the a particular brand of kibble. Most good breeders don't have too many if any conditions on health guarantee and it is usually for life.

3. It seems like they just got into showing. Some of their adults are not very good examples of the breed. The newer puppies are better but this excerpt here from their website bothered me.

Just because our dogs have not made it to the show ring prior to 2007 does not mean that they are not champions in our eyes and everyone that meets them. I still think health and temperament are the two main reasons for breeding, not a dog that looks perfect when stacked on a table. If you manage to get exceptional show quality puppies from a litter that is the icing on the cake. I strive to raise quality companion animals not show stock.
 

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I can PM the site to anyone who's interested. THe forum rules says my account may be banned if I post any kind of breeder info out.

What we ban is breeders coming here and advertising their litters for sale. Go ahead and post the site.

Honestly though from what you describe there are some red flags.
 

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It seems like you've already made up your mind, honestly.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I'm new to the whole dog world, this will be my first dog. Do all breeders breed for show? Like you posted, the dogs are raised for companionship, not show. Does that warrant a cheaper price of the puppy, since it isn't coming from a prominent show blood line? The price is CDN $1000 + tax.

One major thing favouring this breeder is the timing. The puppy is 8 weeks old right now and is ready for pickup whenever we want, assuming it is still available. I've contacted other breeders but they haven't responded yet, whereas this breeder has been responding very quickly to my emails. It is the summer, so my family and I have more spare time to take care and train this puppy while it's still young.
 
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