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Discussion Starter #1
I have tried Wellness CORE, Taste of the Wild, Blue Buffalo, Natural Balance, Royal Canin and Orijen just to name a few kibbles he wouldn't eat them. Then we tried raw, home cooked, Nature's Variety Instinct, Stella & Chewy's frozen and freeze dried. After that we tried all meat canned foods like Evanger's and I forget what else. Nope, he won't eat them then he throws up bile because his stomach is empty.

Then one day I tried the smaller servings Merrick like Grammy's Pot Pie, Thanksgiving Day Dinner, Turducken, Cowboy Cookout and Wingaling. Even then I have to put a little piece of something he likes to entice him to eat (like chicken jerky or little smokies cut up tiny).

What do you do with a dog like this? I've wasted so much money trying to please him and I am so concerned about his health.
 

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Canned is fine, but you should brush his teeth or provide dental chews. But it sounds like he doesn't really like that either?
 

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Yikes! Leeo was this way. I spent over five years adding boiled chicken, chicken liver, chicken gizzards, beef liver, tuna fish .... every single day of his life. I tried all the methods I was given advice on and he would sooner starve. In some ways I regret it ... I will always hope I did not ruin his pancreas ... because that and stomach cancer is what he died from.

I sure hope you find an answer. :)
 

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Canned is fine, but you should brush his teeth or provide dental chews. But it sounds like he doesn't really like that either?
He gets a greenie every day and once a week he gets a busy bone. He also loves his chicken jerky. Is that good enough?
 

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Yikes! Leeo was this way. I spent over five years adding boiled chicken, chicken liver, chicken gizzards, beef liver, tuna fish .... every single day of his life. I tried all the methods I was given advice on and he would sooner starve. In some ways I regret it ... I will always hope I did not ruin his pancreas ... because that and stomach cancer is what he died from.

I sure hope you find an answer. :)
Gulp! I sure hope Leeo's problems weren't caused by diet!! I'm sorry to hear of his passing, poor guy, pancreatic problems are very painful. I lost my beautiful tri-color Sheltie to pancreatitis 30 years ago, the last time I had a dog before Bosley. She wasn't a picky girl though she ate her kibble just fine.
 

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Hi...how about if you mix the kibble in with the canned food?
 

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Discussion Starter #7

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Do a Google search for Doctor Karen Becker's video on what dog food is best; also for a Whole Dog Journal article on the same. Kibble is actually the worst, they say. Raw is best, including frozen raw, canned, dehydrated then dry.
 

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You could try Vital refrigerated food... He might like it. My dog finds it delicious, and I actually braved a piece myself and it even tasted good to me.
 

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He gets a greenie every day and once a week he gets a busy bone. He also loves his chicken jerky. Is that good enough?
Definitely not, IMO. Especially for small dogs who tend to have more teeth issues anyways.

Busy Bones don't really do anything to clean the teeth, and I am not sure about greenies. I always heard about them being dangerous so never tried them. And chicken jerky does nothing to clean the teeth....

Something hard, like a bully stick or a Himalayan Chew, will keep tarter at bay. But really nothing beats teeth brushing. Even every other day will help.

Jackson had a dental cleaning while under for another tooth issue, and he went to a veterinary dentist specialist who was awesome. She explained to me that even 15 minutes after Jackson woke up form his dental, he had plaque on his teeth. A few hours after that, it started to turn into tarter. So brushing every day really is important - I try for every day ever since his dental.

We use CET toothpaste, and a few times a week I use Petzlife gel for maintenance, and about two-three times a week I sprinkle plaqueoff on his food. It seems to be doing the trick because his teeth are still sparkly clean.

Oh and feeding canned food is fine - I don't really believe kibble does much, if anything, to clean teeth anyways.

http://www.vcahospitals.com/main/pet-health-information/article/animal-health/dental-disease-in-dogs/742
 

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We use CET toothpaste, and a few times a week I use Petzlife gel for maintenance, and about two-three times a week I sprinkle plaqueoff on his food. It seems to be doing the trick because his teeth are still sparkly clean.
May I ask how long it's been since his dental? I'm just curious because I've been doing a similar combination of brushing and rinses and I can't seem to keep the very back two teeth at bay. Brushing keeps the tartar about a millimeter away from her gumline (which IMO is the most important part) but I can't seem to remove it/keep it from returning. I'm probably going to have to start using raw bones soon (which are a point of contention between my bf and I) but I keep trying to find other options. I think it's been about 2 years since her last dental. I brush every night before bed with very few exceptions.
 

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Definitely not, IMO. Especially for small dogs who tend to have more teeth issues anyways.

Busy Bones don't really do anything to clean the teeth, and I am not sure about greenies. I always heard about them being dangerous so never tried them. And chicken jerky does nothing to clean the teeth....

Something hard, like a bully stick or a Himalayan Chew, will keep tarter at bay. But really nothing beats teeth brushing. Even every other day will help.

Jackson had a dental cleaning while under for another tooth issue, and he went to a veterinary dentist specialist who was awesome. She explained to me that even 15 minutes after Jackson woke up form his dental, he had plaque on his teeth. A few hours after that, it started to turn into tarter. So brushing every day really is important - I try for every day ever since his dental.

We use CET toothpaste, and a few times a week I use Petzlife gel for maintenance, and about two-three times a week I sprinkle plaqueoff on his food. It seems to be doing the trick because his teeth are still sparkly clean.

Oh and feeding canned food is fine - I don't really believe kibble does much, if anything, to clean teeth anyways.

http://www.vcahospitals.com/main/pet-health-information/article/animal-health/dental-disease-in-dogs/742
Kibble doesn't do much of anything to clean the teeth unless your feeding a prescription dental diet.

Greenies are effective as a dental chew. The only way I could see these being unsafe is if you had a dog that would be more likely to try to swallow the whole thing vs. chewing it. Geenies are on the list of products approved by the VOHC http://www.vohc.org I have used them before but not often because my westie has an allergy to the wheat protein ingredient. I find medi-chews by Medical just as effective and I avoid the allergy problem.

Brushing daily with CET toothpaste would be ideal to keeping the teeth clean.
 

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May I ask how long it's been since his dental? I'm just curious because I've been doing a similar combination of brushing and rinses and I can't seem to keep the very back two teeth at bay. Brushing keeps the tartar about a millimeter away from her gumline (which IMO is the most important part) but I can't seem to remove it/keep it from returning. I'm probably going to have to start using raw bones soon (which are a point of contention between my bf and I) but I keep trying to find other options. I think it's been about 2 years since her last dental. I brush every night before bed with very few exceptions.
Not very long since - so I guess I shouldn't speak too soon! LOL... he got his dental in November so not even a year ago.

Does she chew anything else? Bully sticks/himalayans/etc? Jackson chews those and I think that's the only thing that keeps those back teeth tarter-free.

His canine teeth are what seem to accumulate plaque quickly... if I go a few days without doing anything, I'll notice a bit and then have to use petzlife for a few days in a row and it seems to go away... but definitely brushing every day seems most effective for us.

Have you heard of HealthyMouth? It's actually VOHC approved and proven to work through a few trials. It's not cheap though... the rinse probably lasts a while, but the $60 gel tube is TINY - I was expecting it to be bigger. So I'm not sure if I'll buy it again... but he tolerated it well and it was easy to put on. Can't really say how well it works, because I started after his dental...
 

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Not very long since - so I guess I shouldn't speak too soon! LOL... he got his dental in November so not even a year ago.

Does she chew anything else? Bully sticks/himalayans/etc? Jackson chews those and I think that's the only thing that keeps those back teeth tarter-free.

His canine teeth are what seem to accumulate plaque quickly... if I go a few days without doing anything, I'll notice a bit and then have to use petzlife for a few days in a row and it seems to go away... but definitely brushing every day seems most effective for us.

Have you heard of HealthyMouth? It's actually VOHC approved and proven to work through a few trials. It's not cheap though... the rinse probably lasts a while, but the $60 gel tube is TINY - I was expecting it to be bigger. So I'm not sure if I'll buy it again... but he tolerated it well and it was easy to put on. Can't really say how well it works, because I started after his dental...
She gets those thin unbleached rawhide and she chews on a plastic bone too. She has an antler but got bored of it pretty quickly. I guess it looks like more hard chewy things are in order, be they raw bones or something like Himalayan chews. I've never heard of HealthyMouth, but I'll look into it. Right now we're using Petrodex toothpaste and a chlorhexidine rinse that is replacing the Petzlife since I recently ran out. I can't really say any of these things have helped better than the others. It's really hard to judge what's worth buying and what isn't!
 

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She gets those thin unbleached rawhide and she chews on a plastic bone too. She has an antler but got bored of it pretty quickly. I guess it looks like more hard chewy things are in order, be they raw bones or something like Himalayan chews. I've never heard of HealthyMouth, but I'll look into it. Right now we're using Petrodex toothpaste and a chlorhexidine rinse that is replacing the Petzlife since I recently ran out. I can't really say any of these things have helped better than the others. It's really hard to judge what's worth buying and what isn't!
I agree - it's so hard to tell. It seems petzlife always gets pretty positive reviews... I know it contains alcohol, which concerns some... but I am not too worried about it. I think the amount is small enough.
 

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I'm curious as to why a high protein, low carb diet would rot teeth... I could understand if it were a low quality wet food (many of those foods contain sugar and corn syrup)... I think feeding high quality canned only and giving dental treats daily would be fine.
 

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Little Wise Owl, it is fine to feed a high quality wet food. I'm not saying to not feed wet at all because it'll rot the teeth (in terms of feeding high quality). However, regardless if your feeding dry or wet food its important to take care of the teeth. Feeding dry (unless your using a prescription dental kibble) does nothing to clean teeth (just as wet food will not clean teeth).

Feeding a dental treat a day may be somewhat effective but its not the most effective or ideal for cleaning teeth. In my opinion there are better options out there. I am not against feeding dental treats (I use them myself because I have chewers) but I would not rely on them alone for dental care especially for all dogs because each individual is different. There are many dogs who take little time at all to chew and eat these therefore feeding them is probably not so effective. Some dogs also have a tendancy to chew more on one side then another and you are likely not effectivly cleaning all the teeth in the mouth using a dental treat alone therefore you will still get plaque formation which will harden into tartar. There are also many dental treats on the market that are not as effective as others, I personally would only feed a dental chew that has recieved the VOHC approved. IMO it depends on the dog and even then I would still not rely on them alone for dental care, I would either brush daily which is ideal or look for another product to use in combination. That's my view on it at least.
 

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Kibble does NOTHING to clean the teeth--dogs barely chew it before they knock it back and even if they did it wouldhave no measurable effect. All kibble contains carbohydrate (which dogs have no use for), which makes a gummy coating on the teeth. So actually, a truly carb-free canned food (Evo 95% meat formulae) would be no worse than, and perhaps slightly better than, any kibble on the market teeth-wise.

There is no "dental treat" out there that does much for teeth either--they are either ineffectual (most of them), or dangerous (weight-bearing bones that break teeth, consumable "bones" that contain plastics, etc).

What cleans teeth is chewing through muscle meat and species-appropriate bone (chicken, etc). So unless you are feeding prey model raw, it won't make much difference what you feed--you will have a dog who develops tartar and has to have regular cleanings.
 

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Agree with Pawplus but a good chew on a meaty bone a couple times a week does help quite a bit. My dogs preferred raw beef ribs but if you have an eager chewer then pigs feet would work better. The skin on those things is practically bullet proof according to my lazy dog.

Dried pig or beef ears or tendons would be better than man made dental bones, zero carbs and harder to chew up. Merrick makes a mixed bag of small chews, you might look into that and buy more of the specific ones your dog likes. My dogs loved the 'Texas Toothpicks' and disliked the chicken jerky for instance.

Sassy's teeth stayed the same on a diet of kibble + weekly raw beef rib as they did on a diet of rice heavy wet cooked food + weekly raw beef rib. Not sure how kibble got stuck to her teeth the way she inhaled it but it did.
 

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Kibble does NOTHING to clean the teeth--dogs barely chew it before they knock it back and even if they did it wouldhave no measurable effect. All kibble contains carbohydrate (which dogs have no use for), which makes a gummy coating on the teeth. So actually, a truly carb-free canned food (Evo 95% meat formulae) would be no worse than, and perhaps slightly better than, any kibble on the market teeth-wise.

There is no "dental treat" out there that does much for teeth either--they are either ineffectual (most of them), or dangerous (weight-bearing bones that break teeth, consumable "bones" that contain plastics, etc).

What cleans teeth is chewing through muscle meat and species-appropriate bone (chicken, etc). So unless you are feeding prey model raw, it won't make much difference what you feed--you will have a dog who develops tartar and has to have regular cleanings.
That's what I was saying ... kibble, wet food or dental treats alone will not be effective to cleaning teeth. Although I do not recommend feeding raw bones. Sorry guys I would not risk that one personally. What you chose to do is up to you. Raw meaty bones may not be an option for everyone (some for health reasons) so my recommendation will continue to be regular brushing.

If you can provide with me research that supports the claim the only thing that cleans teeth is chewing through meaty bone I would consider supporting it but I have not found any research that supports the benefits of feeding raw diets or raw bones.
 
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