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Well, to me, a BYB is someone that you see on TV on the animal cops shows. Dirty housing, dogs not being socialized, stuff like that. To *me*, they're two different things
Someone getting a dog labeled "AKC", which is any purebred dog, one you can buy from a byb, a hobby breeder and your local pet store, then breeding a few litters, *I* find alot wrong with that and we're just going to disagree on that. I have no issue buying a puppy from a breeder that has good dogs, proven dogs, health checked dogs, heck, that's where my last puppy came from but to have some person who has a purebred dog decide to breed her because they can or because they think they can make money doing so, that's not right, IMO. There's enough dogs that need homes, if puppies are going to be born, I'd rather they'd be brought into the world by someone who has done the research and has a mentor to help them. Again, JMO

Thats the way that the forum makes ''backyard breeders'' sound, like ANYONE who doesnt have dogs that cost over $2,000 needs to have the animal planet ''animal rescues'' shows come down to their rottweilers stuck in bird cages, used only for breeding (thats why i said you people make it sound EVIL)..... i've known PLENTY of people (AND I'M SURE MY DOG THAT CAME FROM THE SHELTER WAS A BACKYARD DOG, SHE'S THE BEST BEHAVED DOG I'VE EVER SEEN!!!) and i've purchased both of my puppies from ''backyard breeders'' who make SURE (even go so far as to come visit your house!) that their puppies go to a good home, and they make sure that they are plenty old and up to date on shots and make sure that the pups dont have any ''fears'' (loud noises, stairs, things like that), which is something that i gaurantee NO ''puppy mill'' does. they may make sure that they're good to go and wont die within a month, and ship them off to make the money.


I WILL ALWAYS BUY FROM ''BACKYARD BREEDERS''! I WILL NEVER PAY OVER $200 FOR A DOG.

IF THE DOG WAS BORN IN A BIRDCAGE, IT GIVES ME THAT MUCH MORE INCENTIVE TO RESCUE IT!

at any rate, i think i'm done with the forum, i dont like the ''vibe'' around here, reviewing the threads it seems the majority of the members are just waiting to jump down someones throat (not mine, thats just the impression i've got from reading other peoples posts), and i came here for positive feedback and other reasons than to be bitched at, and listen to others bitch at everyone else and act like they're the greatest dog owners on the planet and do no wrong, and anyone less is the worlds worst threat to any dog within a 500 mile radius. i know that everyone on the other forums i belong to are MUCH MUCH friendlier than the general ''pupulation'' around here. i've seen about 6 people in browsing this forum in 4 days who joined, made 2 posts on the day they joined, and never logged in again...over a year later. then i read the thread, and its clear why, everyone is making them feel terrible about not being ''born knowing everything'' like everyone else is around here. i'm now one of them, i think i have what? less than 10 posts easy, and i'll NEVER log on again...

You people as dog owners should be ashamed for having so much hatred in your hearts.

so dont feel compelled to respond to this, i probably will never see it. unless you just HAVE to release your urge to BITCH, that seems to be the trend around here.
 

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and yet, without bybs and oops litters, there would be no dog ownership in the US.

Reputable breeders, and by that I mean breeders who show and or work their dogs, produce only a small percentage of the 4-6 million puppies needed each year to maintain an adequate dog population.
Yeah, cause we're SOO hurting for more puppies. God forbid less dogs are put down in shelters because of over population and idiot owners.

I wish only the small percentage of people who could get those dogs had dogs. It's a huge responsibility. Dogs are not toys, mp3 players or laptops. They are not a commodity that needs to be pumped out, tossed away and recycled. They are living beings that require an actual lifetime of care. The supply needs to be much much less than it is right now.
 

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a rep breeder, is one who carefully selects 2 of the same breed dogs, he/she will pick the finest specicmens, the 2 that will better the breed in the long run. They will take both to teh vet for a through once over, get them tested for eyes, hips and anything else that runs in the breed. He will also make sure that both are suitable breeding ages. He will be prepared and willing to spend copius amount of money if the need arises for a section. They will lovingly tend to the mother to be, feed her quailty foods and be totally prepared for every "just in case" that could possibly happen, just so they are not on a site like this asking for "emergency help with new puppies". They will know when to put the dogs together, they will know that even though the dogs may like each other they still may not breed. basically a decent breeder will know about pregnancy, whelping, care of mother before and care of pups and mother after. They will also lovingly select the proper homes for each individual puppy and will not just give them to the first person who shows up with the cash. They will know about the new owners lives and lifestyle and may even check out references. theya re not afraid to pass on a certain home for whatever reason, They will know what the typical characterisitcs of the breed and will know who will be the right home. They will be willing to lend a hand anytime you have an issue with the new puppy, not just for the first week or so after. A rep breeder will also be willing to take the pup back should anything become amiss, either pup turns out to be sick, or if pup is proven to have long term issues. A rep breeder will take yoru phonecalls and be willing to guide you. They allow the bitch to whelp once a year or less and know when to retire her.

A byb will simply pick 2 dogs and toss them in together and hope for puppies, they may know what to do in emergencies but often they do not. They do not provide an pre pregnancy testing, usually not even an exam. They sell to anyone who waves teh right amount of money around without knowing much about the new owners or the home. They would rather not deal with you when the first vet exams show that pup has parvo or a serious condition which will be a lifelong charge. They cannot tell you any parentage for any generations, they are not aware of what medical issue's run in the breed or the family. basicallly they hope for the best and a big fat wallet....The bitch will breed ay every season, and will only be retired when she stops becomming pregnant. No care will be taken for teh mother's needs, after all she is there just to make money....not that the mother;s are not loved, they usually are.

This is only my opinion of course but I honestly don't think I am that far off, at least in my area it's this way sadly.
 

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FoMoCowboy, it's interesting to me that you've been here a couple of weeks and have already written off this forum. (Yet you continue to post and whine.)

Dogforums is not for everyone. Of those who have registered there are a few hundred truly active and involved participants. Some are outspoken - maybe even abrasive. Some are so kind-hearted and forgiving that it's either inspiring or annoying - depending on your personal read.

Most of us are just dog-owners, interested in sharing stories and ideas.

The members set the tone. If someone breaks the rules, or truly gets out-of-hand, the moderators deal with it. It's a very fine line we walk. It is, after all, an Internet forum and pretty much everything posted is somebody's opinion.

There are a few brave souls who consistantly post opinions that are not in agreement with the consensus. They do it gracefully and without becoming defensive.

I admire those members, though I don't necessarily agree with them, and I think I'd better start PMing them to let them know.

But to just complain about the forum attitude, and threaten to leave, is (in my opinion) rather low-class and pointless. Either stay and improve the forum or leave and find one that's more to your taste.
 

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FoMoCowboy, it's interesting to me that you've been here a couple of weeks and have already written off this forum. (Yet you continue to post and whine.)

Dogforums is not for everyone. Of those who have registered there are a few hundred truly active and involved participants. Some are outspoken - maybe even abrasive. Some are so kind-hearted and forgiving that it's either inspiring or annoying - depending on your personal read.

Most of us are just dog-owners, interested in sharing stories and ideas.

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I'm still rather new here and though I've been a touch outspoken on this one thread, I hope to heck I haven't been abrasive. If I have, I apologize. There are few things regarding dogs that I have very very strong opinions of, this thread is one of them. I've had my say and will try to keep my mouth shut and read for the remainder of the thread <g>
 

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Nicely put, RonE. Did you put my Llama out to pasture?
 

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at any rate, i think i'm done with the forum, i dont like the ''vibe'' around here, reviewing the threads it seems the majority of the members are just waiting to jump down someones throat (not mine, thats just the impression i've got from reading other peoples posts), and i came here for positive feedback and other reasons than to be bitched at, and listen to others bitch at everyone else and act like they're the greatest dog owners on the planet and do no wrong, and anyone less is the worlds worst threat to any dog within a 500 mile radius. i know that everyone on the other forums i belong to are MUCH MUCH friendlier than the general ''pupulation'' around here. i've seen about 6 people in browsing this forum in 4 days who joined, made 2 posts on the day they joined, and never logged in again...over a year later. then i read the thread, and its clear why, everyone is making them feel terrible about not being ''born knowing everything'' like everyone else is around here. i'm now one of them, i think i have what? less than 10 posts easy, and i'll NEVER log on again...

You people as dog owners should be ashamed for having so much hatred in your hearts.

so dont feel compelled to respond to this, i probably will never see it. unless you just HAVE to release your urge to BITCH, that seems to be the trend around here.
If you are not smart enough to make a good counter argument instead of just moaning about others then you are not adding to the forum anyway. So good bye and don't let the door hit you, wouldn't want you to get hurt.
 

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and yet, without bybs and oops litters, there would be no dog ownership in the US.

Reputable breeders, and by that I mean breeders who show and or work their dogs, produce only a small percentage of the 4-6 million puppies needed each year to maintain an adequate dog population.
Adequate?

There's a huge over population in America for unwanted cats and dogs. That's why so many people on here are so very anti BYB or Puppymill, among the other issues.

My suggestion is for you to visit a shelter, and tell me that there is only an "adequate" number of pets in the US.

To me "adequate" means that all pets would homes. That is most definitely not the case.

WHOOPS! That's what I get for posting and not reading the entire thread.

To the OP- Everyone makes their own decisions in life. You can stay and learn or leave and revel in your ignorance.
 

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I WILL ALWAYS BUY FROM ''BACKYARD BREEDERS''! I WILL NEVER PAY OVER $200 FOR A DOG.

IF THE DOG WAS BORN IN A BIRDCAGE, IT GIVES ME THAT MUCH MORE INCENTIVE TO RESCUE IT!
Whoa.... who said that "good" breeders are always the most expensive? Many aren't.. because they're usually NOT in it for the money! Truly it's places like Petland who charge $2000+ for mixed pups and overpriced BYB's (because obviously, more money means a better dog/breeder.. right?) that are the problem... and attitudes like yours don't help anything.

I personally wouldn't pay $200 (or any amount, for that matter) for a dog from a BYB.... and I would never ever "rescue" from a puppymill either - all that does is give them the impression that what they're doing is perfectly fine, and it's a good way to make money (afterall, if you buy from them, it's working for them, isn't it?).

Part of the problem is that people want instant gratification - they want to decide to buy/get a puppy, and then have one in short order (days, weeks at most). Most don't want to put in the effort and time in finding a good breeder. It's really not about cost, and all about "I want it now". I'll even FREELY admit that our family is somewhat guilty of that too, we had been talking about getting a lab for a long time now (almost 2 years), but once we decided we were actually ready for one, instead of doing the breeder thing and taking our time we adopted a shelter pup. He's in all likelihood from a BYB or the result of an "oops" litter (it's hard to say since he was listed at the shelter as a Lab Mix), but I'm okay with that, because I'm not directly supporting irresponsible behavior, we supported the county shelter that does a lot of good for the community, and we got a great dog out of it.

I'm new to this forum too, but I'm not an inexperienced or irresponsible pet owner... and I'm definitely not feeling any 'bad' vibes - honestly it's just nice to find a place where it seems like people feel much the same as I do.
 

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Whoa.... who said that "good" breeders are always the most expensive? Many aren't.. because they're usually NOT in it for the money! Truly it's places like Petland who charge $2000+ for mixed pups and overpriced BYB's (because obviously, more money means a better dog/breeder.. right?) that are the problem... and attitudes like yours don't help anything.

I personally wouldn't pay $200 (or any amount, for that matter) for a dog from a BYB.... and I would never ever "rescue" from a puppymill either - all that does is give them the impression that what they're doing is perfectly fine, and it's a good way to make money (afterall, if you buy from them, it's working for them, isn't it?).

Part of the problem is that people want instant gratification - they want to decide to buy/get a puppy, and then have one in short order (days, weeks at most). Most don't want to put in the effort and time in finding a good breeder. It's really not about cost, and all about "I want it now". I'll even FREELY admit that our family is somewhat guilty of that too, we had been talking about getting a lab for a long time now (almost 2 years), but once we decided we were actually ready for one, instead of doing the breeder thing and taking our time we adopted a shelter pup. He's in all likelihood from a BYB or the result of an "oops" litter (it's hard to say since he was listed at the shelter as a Lab Mix), but I'm okay with that, because I'm not directly supporting irresponsible behavior, we supported the county shelter that does a lot of good for the community, and we got a great dog out of it.

I'm new to this forum too, but I'm not an inexperienced or irresponsible pet owner... and I'm definitely not feeling any 'bad' vibes - honestly it's just nice to find a place where it seems like people feel much the same as I do.
Good post!!:)
 

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Whoa.... who said that "good" breeders are always the most expensive? Many aren't.. because they're usually NOT in it for the money!


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No kidding! When I see dogs at petstores, where dogs come from puppymills or from NOT good breeders, their prices are far more than you'd pay at a reputable breeders
 

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I think the problem we are seeing here is simply a difference of definition. I beleave the poster takes the term "Back Yard Breeder" litteraly. meaning ANYone who breeds and raises their dogs in their backyard. If this is true this type definition can cover very reputable breeders as well. The woman I got Hawk from raises and keeps her dogs fenced-in in her backyard, she also does OFA, titles, and breeds for temperment as well.
 

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That's probably it. I mean, pretty much only puppymills wouldn't have their dogs in the backyard, right? And I'd rather support a BYB any day over a puppymill. I have very definite requirements for any breeder I would support, but if I ever buy from a breeder it will probably not be a show breeder (which by some people's definitions would be a BYB). I would absolutely want health testing, though. No way I'd drop money on a purebred dog without having at least OFA results. And no way I'd support a breeder that doesn't test for things that should have been bred out of the dog population a long time ago, but weren't because of the bad breeders that don't test.
 

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I agree with the general "vibe" of the thread, and agree that there are varying definitions of the terms "hobby breeder" and "BYB." I prefer segregating the sources for getting a dog as responsible or irresponsible.

Responsible breeders/rescues/shelters: screen their buyers, help to match dogs to homes, care for the dogs wholeheartedly and get them appropriate vet care, meet the animals' needs, and screen for genetic issues BEFORE mating a dog. They care and show they care by doing what's right.

Irresponsible sources (which can include rescues/shelters) do not do these things. Breeders who do not have their dogs screened for genetic issues and purposefully breed are irresponsible. Full stop. You only need to see a dog suffering from a seizure to condemn folks who think it's fine to not screen, because most likely they are where this dog came from--a batch of indiscriminately bred puppies who get to suffer through a hereditary disease for the rest of their lives.

Pet stores are always a bad choice IMO. I agree that you are not rescuing those dogs but prolonging the suffering of the puppy that will replace him next week and the parents who are still being used. Sucks to think about, but it's true.

Thanks for a very provocative post that helped me see from where other people draw their concluions.
 

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Re: Things We Wish Everyone Knew Before They Get A Dog

i wouldnt say backyard breeders are bad. I have an aunt and uncle that breed Golden Retrievers and they started out with their dog getting knocked up. Then they decided it was a good idea/ Now they have a good reputation in the Nebraska by word of mouth and i think they are still considered "backyard breeders" but they never have had any issues
 

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Re: Things We Wish Everyone Knew Before They Get A Dog

**Just a heads up... this thread is from 2009.
I have a super real question - I was going to post and say "hey, if you guys want to have a more current discussion about "BYB" versus "hobby" versus "reputable" breeders, starting a new thread will probably be a great way to get more comments than posting on a thread that's six years old".

But then I was afraid that that was backseat moderating and I'd get in trouble. Is it okay to point out resurrections and suggest people start a new thread?
 
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