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Discussion Starter #1
Eddee went to the vet and was 80% better than the last time ... on the table and during the exam. He even ate a treat from the vet. :)

BUT ..................... outside the exam room .............. :doh:

He barked when he saw the vet. The vet went to the restroom. Eddee quit barking.

I praised and treated Eddee for being quiet.

The vet came out of the restroom. Eddee barked his fool head off! I could not get him to sit or be quiet!

The vet suggested a citronella bark collar. Or is there a better way around this? Eddee is like this around "ALL" humans! It is like he was either never socialized properly .... or at all!

I want to take him to tractor supply or pet supplies plus to get him used to being around people other than my relatives ... (we have no dog parks and local park does not permit dogs at all ... no where near the school grounds ) ... but I am worried about him doing harm to people or paying for damages to the merchandise ( from being rambunctious or peeing on something!) if I were to actually take him inside of a store. I think this is why his previous owner gave up on him! Lol! :)

I love him to death and I will not give up on him ... but not quite sure how to handle this particular dog?

I want him to be a social butterfly! :)
 

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When I rescued Lucifer my lab he had a horrible barking problem. I couldnt talk on the phone without him gong crazy and he barked and barked and barked at ANYONE anytime. After trying everything I had been told to try with no luck whatsoever I broke down and bought a bark collar. First Itried it on myself, the shock was very mild, about the same as if you were shocked by walking in socks on carpet . I put it on Lucifer and he literally barked once and has not barked since except for a mild woof at someone at the door !! I am sure this barking problem was a large part of why his previous owners got rid of him. After several months of working with Lucifer he is now a wonderful well behaved dog taht I can can take anywhere. SO I guess you need to weigh the pros and the cons of the bark collar !!! Good luck and I hope all works out with your little one as it did with my Lucifer
 

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The vet suggested a citronella bark collar. Or is there a better way around this?
Remember that a citronella collar, like it's close relative the electric bark collar, is based on being an aversive worth avoiding. So it is possible that Eddee will associate the aversive with the person being barked at, and you'll have a worse problem. Additionally, unlike the shock version, if he gets the spray on him, there will be no immediate relief when he stiops barking.

I would suggest that if you haven't already, you read Leslie McDevitt's book "Control Unleashed" and if you have, you review it - especially the "Look at That" game which is perfect for this situation.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Remember that a citronella collar, like it's close relative the electric bark collar, is based on being an aversive worth avoiding. So it is possible that Eddee will associate the aversive with the person being barked at, and you'll have a worse problem. Additionally, unlike the shock version, if he gets the spray on him, there will be no immediate relief when he stiops barking.

I would suggest that if you haven't already, you read Leslie McDevitt's book "Control Unleashed" and if you have, you review it - especially the "Look at That" game which is perfect for this situation.
I do not have the book ... but definitely going to get it and read it asap! Advice greatly appreciated! In fact I am going to order a couple other books at the same time. :)

I definitely do not want the problem to escalate! I read somewhere on line ... as I was pricing them and looking to see what they actually did ... and I believe it said that the citronella collar I was looking at gave a mild shock also ... unless I misread? That is why I wanted an alternate route!
 

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The vet suggested a citronella bark collar.
Another shining example that vets are usually NOT the best person to obtain behaviour advice from.

One of these days, I'd like to hear of a vet .. who firmly advocates R+ / clicker training, and who holds an apparent disdain for use of aversives etc.

meh :doh: .... wishful thinking, I suppose.

(apologies for going slightly o/t)
 

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Another shining example that vets are usually NOT the best person to obtain behaviour advice from.

One of these days, I'd like to hear of a vet .. who firmly advocates R+ / clicker training, and who holds an apparent disdain for use of aversives etc.

meh :doh: .... wishful thinking, I suppose.

(apologies for going slightly o/t)
No problem! I also agree 100%!!! :)

I am not about to spray or shock my little 11.8 pound dog! ... or any dog for that matter! :doh:
 

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I hate citronella collars, and I think Pawz made a great point that it doesn't go away immediately, I hadn't even thought of that.

We tried one on Caeda once I hate to say, a friend lent it to us, she was going through a MAJOR barking phase. Enough that we started to worry that we might get kicked out of our house. We were getting desperate. She did two things:
Ran up to the cats, barked at them, and yes, sprayed them (funny actually), it wouldn't surprise me if she understood that she was doing this.
She also EMPTIED it, she barked, it sprayed, it made her mad so she barked at it, it sprayed, which made her mad....etc. (again, funny in a sad kind of way)
We gave it back after a few hours. Just not worth it. Only up side: Our house smelled like I had just cleaned.
I personally am a fan of "appropriate barking", and no kind of bark collar allows for that, plus the aversive nature of them for doing something quite natural.
 

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Good luck with your training Abbylynn! I think I'm also going to start trying the "look at that" game, too. I've been doing "look at me" but really this makes more sense and I think it would work better because I want her to be able to stay calm while looking at the trigger instead of me just distracting her from thinking about it by getting her to pay attention to me instead.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
kafkabeetle - I agree ... the "Look at that" sounds like the key! :)

Greater Swiss - That story is rather funny. I bet Caeda knew what she was doing to the cats and the collar! Lol! :)

I am going to start loading the clicker tomorrow! This should be a fun week. I am going to love it. I love clicker training! ... even though I am very new at it! Lol!
 

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kafkabeetle - I agree ... the "Look at that" sounds like the key! :)
It actually worked really well for me on our second walk today. :)
 

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Do you think it could work for cat reactivity? I mean like... Roxie is awful, it's the ONLY problem I have, I hit her with my bike a little yesterday because she ran in front of it at full force... Hard enough to pull the bike a little, all because of a cat. Otherwise she never goes in front of the bike unless I specifically ask her to. I don't know if it's really "reactive" but it's definitely crazy...
 

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It actually worked really well for me on our second walk today. :)
Cool!!! There is hope for Eddee! Lol! :) Maybe this is what we both need to train!
 

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Do you think it could work for cat reactivity? I mean like... Roxie is awful, it's the ONLY problem I have, I hit her with my bike a little yesterday because she ran in front of it at full force... Hard enough to pull the bike a little, all because of a cat. Otherwise she never goes in front of the bike unless I specifically ask her to. I don't know if it's really "reactive" but it's definitely crazy...
I am not sure about cat reactivity .. but it wouldn't hurt to try IMO!

Maybe someone will come along with an answer for that too. Having had these Terriers in my life ( Childhood dog was a Terrier too!) ... I know how much prey drive they can have for other critters for sure!!! :)

Roxie has some Terrier in her doesn't she? She looks it to me. :)
 

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Do you think it could work for cat reactivity? I mean like... Roxie is awful, it's the ONLY problem I have, I hit her with my bike a little yesterday because she ran in front of it at full force... Hard enough to pull the bike a little, all because of a cat. Otherwise she never goes in front of the bike unless I specifically ask her to. I don't know if it's really "reactive" but it's definitely crazy...
I would think so. The cat is the trigger and you can just click/treat whenever she looks at one and remains calm. You'll have to figure out her threshold though, how close she can be to the cat without reacting and start there. Once she's over threshold (like what happened yesterday) it won't work/help.
 

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Yeah, I think she is part Border Terrier by the looks of it. Done a lot of research and talked to breeders to figure it out. They seem to be pretty drivey... Maybe she'd be good at earthdog lol! I think I managed to hit her before the threshold on today's ride when she saw a squirrel... They aren't nearly as much of a trigger but she was still about to go after it and I said "Roxie, on by!" and I managed to get her in time... Usually not the case though! I'll try this!
 

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I wouldn't suggest the spray collars at all. If you think about it, the dog barks, they get sprayed with stinky stuff. Aside from the shock of that, there's then also the long punishment of smelling that. Bark again, same thing, and many dogs just give up, they can't get away from the smell so may as well bark! I had a co-worker (who is a bit insane still to this day) get the most rank, stinky perfume and she went around one afternoon giving us all the gift of the stench. Within 15 minutes I had an insane migrane and went to the bathroom and washed my hair, lucky I could do that but still - I would have gone insane smelling that for too long. I think dogs are just as sensitive so I wouldn't want to keep punishing them with smelling something for as long as it'd take for the smell to wear off!

The shock ones, depending on the type, can go from very mild to 'really, be quiet' depending on the dog's barking, and no, it does not allow them to bark at the right things, but it does get them past the barking habit if it's just that. Storee has had to use one from time to time. Right now she's outside barking once or twice at the new dog next door, but not as bad as she could be, so I'm happy with that.

For your dog though, because he's unsure of the strangers, I wouldn't use it. Get the clicker and teach him it's a good thing. No collar required there!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Bordermom - I agree 100%! :)

Anyways ... with copd ... something that just crossed my mind ... I would probably keel over from the citronella! Lol! :)
 
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