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Discussion Starter #1
So I made a post a while ago about Merle x Merle breeding, and what sparked that post was I noticed the breeder of my dog had done it. They told me it was an accident and that they had not supervised their dogs well enough. Well I have noticed that they have now done two more Merle x Merle breedings.

At this point with what I know now I don't feel like I made the best choice in breeder(though I feel like I got a great dog out of it who hopefully stays health). Would you contact your breeder if they were doing something similar and ask what was going on? Or would you just let it go and chalk it up to a mistake in choosing someone like this?
 

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I would chalk it up to a mistake in choosing them and find another breeder. Merle x merle is incredibly unethical.
 

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I don't think I would bother contacting the breeder. If they keep repeating merle x merle breedings, they obviously think it is okay, and they aren't likely to respond positively to your inquiry. I think I would just cross them off my list of breeders, and go elsewhere in the future.
 

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Are you happy with your dog? Are you happy with your interactions with the breeder? Have they been supportive and honest with you? If so, it sounds like you made a good choice and got a nice dog. I don't see anything wrong with asking about the breedings if it's done with respect, doesn't sound like the breeder is trying to hide it.
 

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So far I have not found one breeder that I agree with completely about everything. It's all a question of individual ethics to me. Even though I don't agree with everything either of my dogs' breeders do, I'd get a dog from either of them again in a heartbeat. The three breeders I'm highly considering for my next dog all have things about them I don't particularly like either. I think unless you breed the dog yourself then you can probably find some point where you'd have done something differently.
 

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I think if you wanted you could send them a letter telling them that you are disappointed to learn that they lied about not doing MM breedings intentionally, and you will not be able to recommend them to people looking for a breeder in the future. Knowing that this choice is affecting their public image might make a difference.

So far I have not found one breeder that I agree with completely about everything. It's all a question of individual ethics to me... I think unless you breed the dog yourself then you can probably find some point where you'd have done something differently.
Yeah but there are degrees of disagreement. This isn't a small thing.
 

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I think if you wanted you could send them a letter telling them that you are disappointed to learn that they lied about not doing MM breedings intentionally, and you will not be able to recommend them to people looking for a breeder in the future. Knowing that this choice is affecting their public image might make a difference.
Sure if you want to make enemies out of your dog's breeder you could do that. Probably won't change what they are doing though.

I'm with Laurelin. I think people get a bit too hung up on disagreeing with people in general. Not everyone has to think or act like you. I've gotten great dogs from breeders I didn't necessarily agree with on certain ethical issues. I tend to look more at the dogs involved in the breeding, the pedigree and the actual puppies I'm considering. I don't have to love everything about the breeder if I love everything about the litter I'm looking at :)

Now for getting into breeding/co-owning sort of things, it does become pretty important that you and the breeder agree on most major things and ethics and most especially with bitches on co-owns. If there are major differences of opinion, it can make things really rough when it comes time to fulfill the contract. Also you want to be sure the breeder will be honest with you about risks involving health issues with breeding choices. So when looking at breeding dogs and especially co-owning, loving everything about the litter you're looking at doesn't cut it.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Of course I am happy with my dog, she is my dog. I am not showing her and am upset that she has some flaw that makes her unable to earn points. Our interactions with the breeder were fine, though when we picked her up she was infested with ticks. I would not go back to these people, nor recommend them to anyone else.

I was just curious if other people would go through their trouble of contact them and expressing displeasure.
 

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Yeah but there are degrees of disagreement. This isn't a small thing.
To some people it is, but to others it wouldn't be if everything else lined up. I know for a fact that some people on here would not like my dogs' breeders for various reasons or would tell me to stop considering the breeders I'm looking at now. I, however, think my dogs' breeders are good breeders that produce great dogs. Other people can disagree. That's why I said it depended on the individual buyer's ethics. You have to draw a line somewhere for yourself on what is and isn't okay. It's going to differ depending on what you (general) believe.

Would I contact the breeder about it and tell them I disagreed? No, I personally would not. If an issue of ethics was such that I felt like I disagreed too much with the breeder, then I would just buy my next dog elsewhere.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
To some people it is, but to others it wouldn't be if everything else lined up. I know for a fact that some people on here would not like my dogs' breeders for various reasons or would tell me to stop considering the breeders I'm looking at now. I, however, think my dogs' breeders are good breeders that produce great dogs. Other people can disagree. That's why I said it depended on the individual buyer's ethics. You have to draw a line somewhere for yourself on what is and isn't okay. It's going to differ depending on what you (general) believe.

Would I contact the breeder about it and tell them I disagreed? No, I personally would not. If an issue of ethics was such that I felt like I disagreed too much with the breeder, then I would just buy my next dog elsewhere.
Very fair point. I know what two breeders I would love to get a dog out of at some point in the future, and the dog I got is actually a cross of the two lines I really like. Which is why I am happy with her temperament and physical ability, I guess it was just the way they have gone about it now.
 

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Of course I am happy with my dog, she is my dog. I am not showing her and am upset that she has some flaw that makes her unable to earn points. Our interactions with the breeder were fine, though when we picked her up she was infested with ticks. I would not go back to these people, nor recommend them to anyone else.
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Was she sold to you as show quality?
 

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I think people get a bit too hung up on disagreeing with people in general. Not everyone has to think or act like you. I've gotten great dogs from breeders I didn't necessarily agree with on certain ethical issues. I tend to look more at the dogs involved in the breeding, the pedigree and the actual puppies I'm considering. I don't have to love everything about the breeder if I love everything about the litter I'm looking at :)
If we shouldn't consider the ethics of the breeder, then why should we discourage people from buying from pet stores/puppymills? As long as THAT puppy is exactly what they want?

As for the OP: if you already consider then pretty crummy breeders and wouldn't recommend them anyway, I don't think they're going to care if you disagree with their breeding practices. If you kept in contact with them and were previously recommending them to other people, a quick note telling them why you wouldn't be recommending them anymore might be OK. But under the circumstances I don't think contacting them will do any good.
 

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No I should have specified that I was not getting her to do that.
Did you mean in a previous post that you AREN'T upset that she has a disqualifying flaw? Because you said you are which kind of made me think you did buy for show purposes.

Here:
I am not showing her and am upset that she has some flaw that makes her unable to earn points.
 

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If we shouldn't consider the ethics of the breeder, then why should we discourage people from buying from pet stores/puppymills? As long as THAT puppy is exactly what they want?
That's not what she said, though. She didn't say to not consider the ethics of a breeder, she said that in some cases the quality of the dogs/suitability of the dogs are going to trump disagreements about specific issues. And I honestly agree with her.
 

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...If you already consider then pretty crummy breeders and wouldn't recommend them anyway, I don't think they're going to care if you disagree with their breeding practices. If you kept in contact with them and were previously recommending them to other people, a quick note telling them why you wouldn't be recommending them anymore might be OK. But under the circumstances I don't think contacting them will do any good.
I think the breeder probably won't care that much, but I guess it's a matter of personal preference. I would probably send a note because it would bother me, and I would hope that it would be the kind of thing where each small time when someone expresses disapproval would add up and make them reconsider. But then, I'm the kind of person who signs a lot of petitions. I think public opinion matters to people more than they realize. It creates social norms that influence how people act.
 

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That's not what she said, though. She didn't say to not consider the ethics of a breeder, she said that in some cases the quality of the dogs/suitability of the dogs are going to trump disagreements about specific issues. And I honestly agree with her.
I agree there are some things not worth getting overly worked up over. Maybe they kennel their dogs outdoors, but make sure they get enough attention and exercise. . .things like that. You have to decide what's a dealbreaker for you.

But it does sound like some people are saying "if you want THAT dog, it doesn't matter HOW the breeder made that dog". Which would make it real hard to steer people away from puppymills.
 

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I agree there are some things not worth getting overly worked up over. Maybe they kennel their dogs outdoors, but make sure they get enough attention and exercise. . .things like that. You have to decide what's a dealbreaker for you.

But it does sound like some people are saying "if you want THAT dog, it doesn't matter HOW the breeder made that dog". Which would make it real hard to steer people away from puppymills.
It would matter to me what the considerations were in crossing two specific dogs - the expected risks and the expected benefits. If you find a high volume commercial dealer or pet shop that does those things, go for it. (I doubt I would find the dog I was looking for from that type of breeder) The thing is, everybody is all about the "responsible" breeder and one of the criteria is that breedings are selected carefully to hopefully improve this generation over the last (or in some cases preservation) but now we're told that's not really important? Unless it follows along 100% with what the individual considers ethical? I tell you, I've bought good dogs from breeders who did things I wouldn't do, and made choices I wouldn't make. What was important was the quality of the dog they produced and if it was what I was looking for. I don't expect many people here to understand the idea of working toward a superior line or excellent dogs. Excellence isn't much valued by our society where a cute mixed breed is considered a better choice than a well bred purebred, and we don't give our kids grades because a C- might injure their self-esteem. Everything is equal, oh, yeah.
 

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Did you mean in a previous post that you AREN'T upset that she has a disqualifying flaw? Because you said you are which kind of made me think you did buy for show purposes.

Here:
I am not showing her and am upset that she has some flaw that makes her unable to earn points.
I read the original quote as a hypothetical. As in "It's not like I was planning on showing her and am now upset that she has some flaw that makes her unable to earn points."

But that's just my take.
 
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