I am not saying that social heirarchies rule every facet of dog behavior. All I am saying is tht they exist...
Didnt realise so many people believed in Alpha nonsense.
So I have moved areas and become part of a face book group for the local dog park.
There are quite a few members who post, asking how do I get my puppy not to be the alpha over the older dogs and blah blah blah she needs to know she is at the bottom.
I REALLY did not realize how many people bought into that BS.
Sigh.
There are quite a few members who post, asking how do I get my puppy not to be the alpha over the older dogs and blah blah blah she needs to know she is at the bottom.
I REALLY did not realize how many people bought into that BS.
Sigh.
41 - 60 of 173 Posts
Hattie does that sometimes... but will also snarl and growl at every other dog and person when she's eating and they come too close to her bowl. She will claim a crate or bed for the night. She likes to pull on the leash and *gasp* walk ahead of me.
Is she "dominant"? I dont think so.... I think she's sort of like the weird kid that had a crappy upbringing and doesn't have good social skills.
Im sorry that your dog behaves like this..
I don't routinely make my dogs wait at the door while I walk out first. I am not neurotic..... But I can if I want to....
Your dog really needs help...Have you read the sticky posts?Hattie does that sometimes... but will also snarl and growl at every other dog and person when she's eating and they come too close to her bowl. She will claim a crate or bed for the night. She likes to pull on the leash and *gasp* walk ahead of me.
Is she "dominant"? I dont think so.... I think she's sort of like the weird kid that had a crappy upbringing and doesn't have good social skills.
I agree that dogs who live together tend to have a hierarchy, though it is frequently in flux. I just think that posturing like dogs is a rather silly model for humans to follow.Must not have been very dominant males
I do believe dominant dogs exist. Yet dynamics are always changing. For instance, in my dogs, the old male eats when he wants, lies where he wants, moves the others, or corrects the dogs as he sees fit. Then normally the others fall sort of numbered on down. I have brought in others that challenge some, replace positions, etc. Every once in awhile a fight may break out, usually the lesser dog backs down.
Usually dogs that live together have a structure, dogs just meeting go through all sorts of positions. It's not as simple as a stance or one rolling over. One dog may display lots of dominant or submissive actions, and then there is fear, insecurity, aggression, many number of things play a part.
That is all I am saying.... Dogs have a heirarchy.... Some are dominant and some are submissive....I agree that dogs who live together tend to have a hierarchy, though it is frequently in flux. I just think that posturing like dogs is a rather silly model for humans to follow.
I do believe it plays a role in dogs obeying your commands.... But all that alpha rolling,etc is crap....
I met a guy once that would bite his dogs on the neck and ear.... Loony toons.
That would be Alice. But I would not consider her submissive, as she is very manipulative and uses it to get what she wants. I believe she is what Patricia McConnell calls "aggressively obsequious"IT was theoretical..... But every night I watch one dog pull all the toys out of the toy bin, just to have another dog take them and stack them up.
Explain this.....
Two dogs meet.... One dog immediately goes on its back and gives its underside to the other dog.....
I agree 100%..............That is all I am saying.... Dogs have a heirarchy.... Some are dominant and some are submissive....
I do believe it plays a role in dogs obeying your commands.... But all that alpha rolling,etc is crap....
.
I also believe that some owner/dog relationships are much more casual than others.
I think the higher the drive dog, less affable, less biddable, the dog the more heirarchies MAY come into play. That is a bit of THEORY on my part.
But keep in mind, I come from 30 years of looking at the litter and seeing the MOST OFF THE WALL, PICKING ON ITS LITTER MATES, NOT BIDDABLE BREEDS, and saying.... That is the ONE I want.....
I think the higher the drive dog, less affable, less biddable, the dog the more heirarchies MAY come into play. That is a bit of THEORY on my part.
But keep in mind, I come from 30 years of looking at the litter and seeing the MOST OFF THE WALL, PICKING ON ITS LITTER MATES, NOT BIDDABLE BREEDS, and saying.... That is the ONE I want.....
And to comment on this.... IMO that is NOT good advice... Having been around dogs and puppies for all of my nearly 45 years, an adult dog most certainly will correct an over enthusiastic puppy. As PawzK9 mentoned it should not be a serious correction... But depending on the dog it can be HARSH. Young puppies should only be around VERY Reliable dogs and with supervision. An Adult dog can hurt a puppy in a flash.Oh my goodness I just got a reply from someone I gave advice too. Told me I was stupid for telling them that the older dog won't correct a 12 week old puppy. And why would I give such dangerous advice. Argh!
@ rescued i feel you, i have a little girl like this & i love her, but she is very stressful when it comes to other dogs sometimes, ppl she is great with, but having to watch her with other dogs is a full time job LOL.
just today all the dogs were playing fetch (well a few two... Buddy & Yumi were just laying down & watching, Buddy ran with the other dogs for a bit, but hes an older guy who tires easily) she got a tad overzealous & bit Bear, my folks JRT, making him yelp. since she is consiterably larger then Bear, 'ouching' other dogs is a no no & warrants a loss in play privlages for the rest of the duration of the play session (Bear is 12, so its never long LOL).
those instances are getting fewer & fewer but every once & a while she forgets LOL.
just today all the dogs were playing fetch (well a few two... Buddy & Yumi were just laying down & watching, Buddy ran with the other dogs for a bit, but hes an older guy who tires easily) she got a tad overzealous & bit Bear, my folks JRT, making him yelp. since she is consiterably larger then Bear, 'ouching' other dogs is a no no & warrants a loss in play privlages for the rest of the duration of the play session (Bear is 12, so its never long LOL).
those instances are getting fewer & fewer but every once & a while she forgets LOL.
Oh wow, wasn't expecting that many replies to come to this morning!
I do believe that a "pack" hierarchy exists, that's for sure. But when people believe so strongly in something just because they have seen it from a certain someone on tv rather than going out and doing research of their own bothers me. Fine they can have an opinion if they have looked into it themselves and looked into other methods and found whats best for them. And also for someone to think that a 12 week old puppy is trying to get one up over all the other dogs is ridiculous. (that's what this person believes)
Social structure in a multi dog situation is about as far as I will take any of that stuff. I feel like people forget that dogs have personalities some are outgoing, some are couch potatoes and that they aren't robots who will conform to the "pack" structure because that's "how it is". My dog just doesn't care to argue and that's her. If people choose to see that as submissive then fine. I certainly wont look into her eyes or alpha roll her, ever.
I do believe that a "pack" hierarchy exists, that's for sure. But when people believe so strongly in something just because they have seen it from a certain someone on tv rather than going out and doing research of their own bothers me. Fine they can have an opinion if they have looked into it themselves and looked into other methods and found whats best for them. And also for someone to think that a 12 week old puppy is trying to get one up over all the other dogs is ridiculous. (that's what this person believes)
Social structure in a multi dog situation is about as far as I will take any of that stuff. I feel like people forget that dogs have personalities some are outgoing, some are couch potatoes and that they aren't robots who will conform to the "pack" structure because that's "how it is". My dog just doesn't care to argue and that's her. If people choose to see that as submissive then fine. I certainly wont look into her eyes or alpha roll her, ever.
Ah i didn't word that properly, that does sound stupid. I believe my exact words were "As the puppy is only 12 weeks old, you wont find your other dogs correcting the younger dog seriously until it gets older" I don't know if that's right either im not an expert it is probably as you said JB the older dogs arent reliable enough, but ill take that over the puppy is trying to be alpha anyday. I could have given a better answer, but when you go on a big spiel on a fb page you seem like a bit of a nut job. :SAnd to comment on this.... IMO that is NOT good advice... Having been around dogs and puppies for all of my nearly 45 years, an adult dog most certainly will correct an over enthusiastic puppy. As PawzK9 mentoned it should not be a serious correction... But depending on the dog it can be HARSH. Young puppies should only be around VERY Reliable dogs and with supervision. An Adult dog can hurt a puppy in a flash.
Ahh, one of my ten week old pups had to have surgery twice on her face from an adult.correcting her :/And to comment on this.... IMO that is NOT good advice... Having been around dogs and puppies for all of my nearly 45 years, an adult dog most certainly will correct an over enthusiastic puppy. As PawzK9 mentoned it should not be a serious correction... But depending on the dog it can be HARSH. Young puppies should only be around VERY Reliable dogs and with supervision. An Adult dog can hurt a puppy in a flash.
High drive, reactive dogs. The pups are also high drive, and dont take corrections appropriately. So the normal growls and snaps didn't work.
That said, normally corrections are mild from adult dogs, and normally the pups learn to listen. Even this instance was much milder than it would have been for an older dog/pup.
Okay I just read what I wrote and I definitely overdid it. She's not at all a bad dog- and keep in mind she was rescued from a high kill shelter, heartworm positive, had given birth in the shelter and all pups died by two weeks, and we've only had her since april. She's come a long way.Your dog really needs help...Have you read the sticky posts?
I exaggerated, a lot. Should've re-read what I typed. She growls at our other dogs when eating but she was STARVED when we got her, so I dont blame her. I don't have any reason to take away her food but if I needed to it wouldn't be a problem.
She does like to claim a crate or bed, but seeing as she's very social and had previously been chained up outside, I don't blame her. Again, if I need to pick her up and move her its not a problem.
Don't be sorry! We're working on it, and shes improving a ton. I'm glad I rescued her.... she was due to get the needle the next day, and I can't imagine our house without her. Knowing where she came from, I think she's turned out awesome so far.Im sorry that your dog behaves like this..
Hierarchies are a construct. That means they are whatever you want them to be. From culture, from what you've likely been fed from birth, you have some sort of projection of what it is, or should be. In our culture it's pretty much accepted as true without proof.
Nevertheless... It has no use whatsoever. You either want more behavior or less. In either case, there are ways to get to 'it' without useless constructs. My apology to the lycanthropes out there.
Nevertheless... It has no use whatsoever. You either want more behavior or less. In either case, there are ways to get to 'it' without useless constructs. My apology to the lycanthropes out there.
Answers in bold.IF three dogs are in a room and you put three bones in the center of the room and one dog takes control of all three bones, what do you call that?
A fight
If your dog takes orders, follows instructions, and commands given by you, what do you call that?
A well trained dog
Same here, Josefina makes life here very lively lolDon't be sorry! We're working on it, and shes improving a ton. I'm glad I rescued her.... she was due to get the needle the next day, and I can't imagine our house without her. Knowing where she came from, I think she's turned out awesome so far.
I'm gonna jump on that with you.I think the higher the drive dog, less affable, less biddable, the dog the more heirarchies MAY come into play. That is a bit of THEORY on my part.
Yes as Julie says sometimes accidents just happen, guess that's why they are called accidents. All it takes is a misguided snarl and snap and you have a one-eyed pup, am I exaggerating, a bit but stuff happens.
I shudder sometimes with some of the stories owners have on DF, they do silly dangerous stuff that just makes no sense. If you give them a heads up they think your picking on them.
sometimes its hard to get a sensitive point across on an internet forum since in text (no matter how well we word it) there is no true emotion, punctuation, or facial expressions to clue the reader in on what the true meaning behind it is, so understandably, mistakes are made in inturpration (spelling???)
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