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Discussion Starter #1
ok, you all have an idea of the story behind Jack, my little foster boy.....as to date he is doing better w/ me (just a little bit of attitude) but he has lots toward anyone else....i can generally take things away, pick him up after the 1st try and him getting pissy, he crates well, etc. but he has gone back to "challenging" anyone else on these things....i don't trust him around little kids (if they have something he wants i believe he'd bite to get it), he gotten nasty w/ the dogs when they have something he wants (rawhide, toy, etc) and is showing possessiveness of me towards all but my 4 (he knows i won't tolerate that.....the daughters of the man that used to own him don't want him cuz they don't trust him, and one has a young child....if i were to place him w/ someone that could keep the upper hand and not have the issues w/ him (like i have been gaining) that would be fine but then i think in terms of anyone coming into that home and him biting b/c they try to take something from him or whatever (he likes to steal things from pockets/purses like gloves, etc).....he really is a sweet boy as long as you don't try to be in charge/control.....

so, my question to all you on DF is, would you keep going and try to place him (i can't keep him and risk my grandkids when they're here), being pretty sure that it's going to always be an issue and a risk, or would you have him PTS b/4 someone really gets hurt (he's got one bite on police record and he's gotten my husband 2x and me 2x and 1 scratch....he gives no audible warning and unless you're watching closely and can read his body cues you never know when he's going to bugger and he has many trigger points)
 

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Tirluc
Before taking chance with grandkids he would be PTSed. He actually has enough bites to warrant the action. Of course I also am pro death penalty for people. I have no problem with dog biting you as it's a self choice. The problem in rehoming is finding somebody that is responsible and is 100% dog careful oriented. It seems people are busy here/there everywhere that accidents are sure to happen. How many posts have you seen on DF about people whose dogs run out the door when opened. How stupid is that, you either pick dog up or snap a lead to dog before you open door. It's not rocket science. I also think after reading many of your replies that you would never forgive yourself if somebody got hurt.
Now after all that, he could be handled at home. He would have to be 100% crated or in a kennel run the whole time strangers/kids etc are in the home area.
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
yeah, that's my thought on the whole thing, too....i just hate to give up on him knowing that this is not his fault.....i get the very distinct feeling from him, however, that he really likes being "in charge" and has no desire to give up that position....at least not w/out a good fight b/4 he does and i don't want to see that happen either....
also, there's that....how many times do dogs slip out the door....if he did that and some person, not knowing him tried to pick him up to take him wherever that would be a bad thing...he doesn't give a warning snap b/4 literally ripping into you, he just lets fly....
 

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Kudos to you for working with this dog.

If you really think that you can find him an appropriate home, go for it. I am always a person who prefers any alternative over PTS. However, and I am sure you know this... be careful. A time-bomb dog like this could really be dangerous. If the place who takes him slips up and he does hurt a kid, how would you feel? What about legal implications? These are the questions I think are important.

Again, thanks for giving this guy a chance! Good luck!
 

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I just finished reading the book A GOOD DOG by Jon Katz. Same scenario with the same 4choices: Rehome (pass the problem on to someone else); Put in prison for the rest of his life; PTS or, explore every medical option for a possible cause (Brain tumor, thyroid, etc. at a cost of $5-6K). I won't spoil the ending by revealing what the author did but, he very eloquently shared his feelings on each approach and how in the final analysis it's everyone's very personal decision....to live with....or not.
 

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Tir I think you've done the best you can, but in the long run, he's too much of a liability to anybody who'd adopt him.
He's got bites on record, he bites unprovoked. There's hundreds if not thousands of good even tempered dogs out there that can't find homes either.

Especially like you said about slipping out the door. Lily has jumped my fence 10 times this week, and slipped out the door twice (on my neighbors kid coming over) - she ran directly over to my neighbors toddler who is about a year old and slurped her in the face. The toddlers mother was within 10 feet of the baby and not close enough to beat Lily to her (as I'm chasing Lily out the door barefoot in my PJ's), but thank heaven Lily is a very friendly and non-vicious dog...I shudder to think what could have happened to that poor baby otherwise.

I honestly believe unless he can be put in a home that is 100% aware of his capabilities to be nasty and has experience dealing with a dog with such issues, well if that can't be obtained I think being PTS is his best option. It would be better for you to do it than have animal control do it, he trusts you.
 

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It's not the dog's aggression that concerns me. I think that can be worked with. However, it's the lack of body signals that would concern me.

Due to that issue, I would say that putting the dog to sleep would be your best bet.

You can't risk your grandkids, and you wouldn't want anyone else to make the mistake of adopting out a dog like that, and then suing you if he goes nuts on someone.
 

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....i just hate to give up on him knowing that this is not his fault.....
Any way you look at it, it's not his fault. However, it may be less the fault of his previous owners than [we] assume. What you have described may be his clueless humans' attempt to manage a dog who's simply wired wrong. You'll probably never know the absolute truth of the matter, and rehabilitating the boy may not be possible. Unless you know someone like Zim, who has the willingness and ability to manage a dog like this, the best option (for me) would be to euthanize him. They can't all be saved.
 

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I would not pass him on to someone else. I think the best option from the sounds of it would be to put him to sleep.
 

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I just finished reading the book A GOOD DOG by Jon Katz. Same scenario with the same 4choices: Rehome (pass the problem on to someone else); Put in prison for the rest of his life; PTS or, explore every medical option for a possible cause (Brain tumor, thyroid, etc. at a cost of $5-6K). I won't spoil the ending by revealing what the author did but, he very eloquently shared his feelings on each approach and how in the final analysis it's everyone's very personal decision....to live with....or not.
Jon Katz justified that to himself and managed to make a ton of money off it. Too bad he never actually consulted a real pro trainer. Poor Orson.

/rant.

Tirluc, I don't think any of us can make a real determination without seeing the dog in person. There's just too many variables. For example, where on the bite scale do the bites rank? How common are the triggers? Is this dog high drive enough (or cute & unique enough- or conversely, do you know someone who is soft-hearted enough to take him but still firm enough to train him and who will make the hard decision if he's not 'fixable') that someone who is seriously INTO dog training will be interested?
 

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Jon Katz justified that to himself and managed to make a ton of money off it. Too bad he never actually consulted a real pro trainer. Poor Orson.

/rant.
I was thinking the same thing.
 
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