[dbarajas]

I own a 9yr old Golden Retriever. Adopted about 3 months ago.

With practice I've been able to learn some of the dog's boddy language and I can tell if there's going to be a fight. But something is to tell what's going to happen and other is to prevent it.

If my dog tries to be dominant (very rarely), I just pull it out. But if the other dog is the dominant and is off-leash I'm not sure what to do. I can't pull my dog away because the other one keeps comming. I have to rely on the other owner but I always find them slow to reach their dogs, even when they seem to know that their dog is normally aggressive. (You can hear them calling their dogs in panic, but they just don't run, just walk to reach their dogs).

When another dog has a dominant stance towards my dog, my dog chooses to ignore him and keeps wagging the tail, but he won't yield and that leads to the other dog trying to bite him and my dog responding the aggression.

So, what should I do? Try to pull my dog anyway? Let him fight? Cray in panic as the other useless owner?

Thanks
Diego

 

[L Kathryn]

Get between your dog and the other dog. If the other owner is slow to reach and correct their dog - do it for them. Your dog is the priority and your job is to protect your dog.

 

[LilasMom]

I own a 9yr old Golden Retriever. Adopted about 3 months ago.

With practice I've been able to learn some of the dog's boddy language and I can tell if there's going to be a fight. But something is to tell what's going to happen and other is to prevent it.

If my dog tries to be dominant (very rarely), I just pull it out. But if the other dog is the dominant and is off-leash I'm not sure what to do. I can't pull my dog away because the other one keeps comming. I have to rely on the other owner but I always find them slow to reach their dogs, even when they seem to know that their dog is normally aggressive. (You can hear them calling their dogs in panic, but they just don't run, just walk to reach their dogs).

When another dog has a dominant stance towards my dog, my dog chooses to ignore him and keeps wagging the tail, but he won't yield and that leads to the other dog trying to bite him and my dog responding the aggression.

So, what should I do? Try to pull my dog anyway? Let him fight? Cray in panic as the other useless owner?

Thanks
Diego

Just don't let them interact. Just keep walking if possible. Your dog relies on you to know when it is "fight or flight" and it should always be "flight" of course. Just leave the situation. If you leave your dog in an uncomfortable situation where you aren't getting him away from an annoying or aggressive dog, he is going to think he has to handle the situation himself. A dog can and will fight back if he deems it necessary to protect him and you, and it could get really bad. One wrong bite and either dog could get seriously injured. Never let dogs fight or just fight it out. It can and has led to death and lawsuits.

When first had my Yorkie, I would feel bad and almost obligated to let the neighborhood kids pet her. But after a while I was like you know what? I don't care what the kids think, this is about me exercising my dog and enriching her day. They don't have an automatic right to pet her just because she is cute, tiny, and just walking by their kids' lemonade stand. I have a yorkie and a maltese so I am frequently having to avoid people that think they are just "the cutest little things!". It doesn't make you a bad person if you politely say, "Sorry, we are focused on walking today" or "We are training on leash walking". Doesn't matter if it is a lie, they won't know that.

My situation is a bit different than yours but I think the concept still fits. Your dog will be grateful that they didn't have to deal with an uncomfortable situation.

 

[Amaryllis]

When first had my Yorkie, I would feel bad and almost obligated to let the neighborhood kids pet her. But after a while I was like you know what? I don't care what the kids think, this is about me exercising my dog and enriching her day. They don't have an automatic right to pet her just because she is cute, tiny, and just walking by their kids' lemonade stand. I have a yorkie and a maltese so I am frequently having to avoid people that think they are just "the cutest little things!". It doesn't make you a bad person if you politely say, "Sorry, we are focused on walking today" or "We are training on leash walking". Doesn't matter if it is a lie, they won't know that.

This. So much. Maybe I'm a big meanie, but I don't have to let your kids maul my dog, and I'm not going to, either.

Back to the OP, I agree that you need to deal with it. Get in between the dogs, get your dog away if possible. Do not let your dog fight it out. You are the owner, it's your problem. I can't say I enjoy stepping between my dog and the pit bull cross down the street that is just obsessed with him, but I do it because I don't want my dog to learn that I can't or won't protect him. That causes all kinds of behavioral problems.

 

[dbarajas]

Get between the dogs...(sigh)... I once did that with a Sharpei and worked. Today's pit bull was far more impressive, but I'll do it next time.

Thanks
Diego

 

[Megadodger]

Let's start with a little bit of history about myself.*

I grew up with a dog that was mostly part wolf and his owner continued that I can't let him sense that I'm afraid because he is dominant and will try to "put me in my place" for a few years I got to know the good and bad sides of this dog and I thought back to what I was told. I threw that out and I walked up to him on his turf and he attacked me. My fault, but I believed that he should have known better. He doesn't own anything except the body he lives on, everything else was given to him to let him use during his existence, and I know dogs don't know that, but that's the best way I can explain it. I was pretty banged up and he tried to jump on me again, but instead I reached under him and grabbed his opposite leg and his neck and pinned him to the ground and firmly said, "I'm boss!"*

Ever since then I have found a sort of satisfaction helping dogs with their problems and teaching people the different between person and dog. It has now been 6 years since that happened and i continue to give advice and show people techniques on how to deal with their little fur-friends.*

Now, 3 years ago my mom decided to get a dog. She got a jack Russell terrier named Gizzie. Now, whenever she saw a dog she would get upset and we would just avoid it at first. Then it started to get really bad.. She would try to attack other dogs every time she saw them and even turned on her. At that point I took over; Giz was not allowed to sleep on the couches or on our beds. She had a kennel and that was where she slept. She no longer got to play with squeaky toys or "kill" her stuffed animals. She would try to claim dominance over me so every time I would sense her trying to take over I would pin her until she relaxed. She was good for a while so we started taking her to the off leash dog park. No fights! No growling or biting, absolutley nothing. So we thought about it, maybe whoever is holding onto the leash is giving off the wrong energy. Nope. As soon as we put her back on the leash she would go insane.*

We have tried stripping her of her dominance, ignoring her, treat training, socialization, and doggy day *care but she just won't give up that aggression when she is on the leash.*

I'm the one that always takes her out and last summer a puppy was off leash and ran up to Gizzie. I didn't have the chance to get between her and the puppy or pick her up and she took a chunk out of this puppy's neck. I feel terrible and she's not even my dog.*
I guess what I'm asking is does anyone else have and other suggestions.?*

 

[LilasMom]

Let's start with a little bit of history about myself.*

I grew up with a dog that was mostly part wolf and his owner continued that I can't let him sense that I'm afraid because he is dominant and will try to "put me in my place" for a few years I got to know the good and bad sides of this dog and I thought back to what I was told. I threw that out and I walked up to him on his turf and he attacked me. My fault, but I believed that he should have known better. He doesn't own anything except the body he lives on, everything else was given to him to let him use during his existence, and I know dogs don't know that, but that's the best way I can explain it. I was pretty banged up and he tried to jump on me again, but instead I reached under him and grabbed his opposite leg and his neck and pinned him to the ground and firmly said, "I'm boss!"*

Ever since then I have found a sort of satisfaction helping dogs with their problems and teaching people the different between person and dog. It has now been 6 years since that happened and i continue to give advice and show people techniques on how to deal with their little fur-friends.*

Now, 3 years ago my mom decided to get a dog. She got a jack Russell terrier named Gizzie. Now, whenever she saw a dog she would get upset and we would just avoid it at first. Then it started to get really bad.. She would try to attack other dogs every time she saw them and even turned on her. At that point I took over; Giz was not allowed to sleep on the couches or on our beds. She had a kennel and that was where she slept. She no longer got to play with squeaky toys or "kill" her stuffed animals. She would try to claim dominance over me so every time I would sense her trying to take over I would pin her until she relaxed. She was good for a while so we started taking her to the off leash dog park. No fights! No growling or biting, absolutley nothing. So we thought about it, maybe whoever is holding onto the leash is giving off the wrong energy. Nope. As soon as we put her back on the leash she would go insane.*

We have tried stripping her of her dominance, ignoring her, treat training, socialization, and doggy day *care but she just won't give up that aggression when she is on the leash.*

I'm the one that always takes her out and last summer a puppy was off leash and ran up to Gizzie. I didn't have the chance to get between her and the puppy or pick her up and she took a chunk out of this puppy's neck. I feel terrible and she's not even my dog.*
I guess what I'm asking is does anyone else have and other suggestions.?*

I would never recommend pinning a dog to the ground, that is a good way to make your dog fearful.

 

[Megadodger]

I would never recommend pinning a dog to the ground, that is a good way to make your dog fearful.

Its never forcefully. I never actually hurt her or any other dog. Haven't you ever watched the dog whispered?

 

[LilasMom]

I don't agree with many cesar milan's methods, especially the whole alpha thing. It has been disproven. There is even a disclaimer on the show that says not to do what he does at home. A dog getting alpha rolled is probably scared, especially one as small as a Jack Russel Terrier. I would try and seek professional positive training before such negative methods like pinning down.

Do a search on cesar milan, he has been discussed a lot here.

http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/24135-have-you-heard-watch.html

http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/89926-oppinions-cesar-millan.html

 

[Megadodger]

I don't agree with many cesar milan's methods, especially the whole alpha thing. It has been disproven. There is even a disclaimer on the show that says not to do what he does at home. A dog getting alpha rolled is probably scared, especially one as small as a Jack Russel Terrier. I would try and seek professional positive training before such negative methods like pinning down.

Do a search on cesar milan, he has been discussed a lot here.

http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/24135-have-you-heard-watch.html

http://www.dogforums.com/general-dog-forum/89926-oppinions-cesar-millan.html

The only thing is, is everything else works for her. She's far from afraid of me.. If she were afraid of me she would yelp when i touch her like she does to someone who uses force to correct her.
I understand Caesars methods but i don't claim to follow all his rules, but we have tried a lot of things. Going to an actual trainer isn't in the agenda because for stuff like that you have to pay. I already pay over 6000$ a month for medications for myself because Im sick, i came on here task what people suggested.. And to see what has worked for them.. Not to get told that Im doing it all wrong when i, in face, has seen progress in her from what she used to be.

 

[Rescued]

So we thought about it, maybe whoever is holding onto the leash is giving off the wrong energy. Nope. As soon as we put her back on the leash she would go insane.*

I think this is the component you're missing. I don't believe in any of that stuff Cesar Milan preaches, but if it makes more sense in his terms... I think that you would be the "wrong energy" in this situation. Not trying to ruffle feathers, I just know it's hard to analyze your (my) dogs behavior when it directly relates to you (or me).

 

[ofthelogos]

Megadodger:

What you are describing here is fear reactivity, which is often much worse when the dog is on leash because they feel trapped. Animals have two responses to stress: fight or flight. When the dog is leashed, the 'flight' option has been taken off the table.

Having dogs interact on leash also seriously confuses dog body language and social signals. Unfamiliar dogs move towards each other in arcs and exchange ritual greetings. Dogs on leash are often forced to walk straight towards one another (aggressive signal) cannot move in stops and starts (aggressive signal) and are often excited and straining towards each other (aggressive signal). Add to that that many people walk their dogs on neck collars (pressure on a dog's neck increases the release of stress hormones) and you have a bona-fide recipe for reactivity.

Aggression is not the mark of a 'dominant' dog (a dog with an assertive personality is calm and confident). Aggression is a distancing signal. It is used by insecure dogs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL4_ez5M2S4&list=UUEx7qRAzUH_nmQn_hiLo2Ig&index=1&feature=plcp

Your (mom's) dog was nervous of other dogs, so she tried to show calming signals and avoidance (polite dog language) to tell them to go away. That didn't work. So, she did the only thing she could do, which was to try harder (and increasingly less politely) to tell them to go away. Not only did that not work, but now she has probably also learned that her reacting to these other dogs means that you yourself will become reactive with her. This can only make things worse. Dog's aren't moral creatures. She'll never understand that it is "wrong" to react to other dogs, only that when they are around you also become dangerous. Therefore, she will probably try even harder to keep them away. It's a vicious cycle.


If you are totally unable to see a professional, this is the protocol professionals use to deal with reactivity on leash:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=eMc-zyNfRO0#!
http://ahimsadogtraining.com/blog/bat/
*this should be helpful for the OP as well

As others have said "dominance" is not the culprit here, and dominance reduction exercises (which have been proven ineffectual in laboratory experiments) will not help you.

Check out these excellent youtube trainers for some training inspiration and more videos on dealing with shyness or reactivity:
http://www.youtube.com/user/kikopup?ob=4&feature=results_main
http://www.youtube.com/user/tab289?ob=0&feature=results_main
http://www.youtube.com/user/DomesticatedManners?ob=0&feature=results_main
http://www.youtube.com/user/SuperBark1?ob=0&feature=results_main

Check these out if you want to understand why many of us have strong opinions against the training techniques shown on CM's show:
http://www.dogwelfarecampaign.org/why-not-dominance.php
http://www.4pawsu.com/dogpsychology.htm
http://drsophiayin.com/philosophy/dominance/

Good luck with your pup!