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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all, we're considering a Labrador puppy currently and we have found a breeder who we are willing to buy from, they're friendly and helpful etc, but I've had a look at the breeding register that shows all previous relatives from four generations back of the puppies in the litter and there's one thing that worries me, I've studied genetics at GCSE and I'm currently studying at A-level and as most of you probably know, inbreeding is bad, it reduces genetic diversity and increases the likely hood of defects. This is the register:

If you look at the grand parents, both Daleabbey's got the giggles at Damolyn and Daleabbey's get out and about are siblings as they share the same parents - Bradstone's my way at Miramonte and Daleabbey's out on the town, which would make the parents (Damolyn's twist and shout, and Sunshine deep rose) of the puppies half cousins if I am right in thinking, and two half cousins have had puppies, I know the risk of any genetic defect due to inbreeding is very low due to the dilution of genetics and fresh genes, but it's still a possibility, am I correct?

Thanks and sorry for the long winded first post!
 

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I am sure your breeder is well aware of the inbreeding. It very well may have been intentional. Inbreeding in dogs isn't quite the same as it is in humans. There are benefits and consequences to inbreeding. Honestly I don't think you have anything to worry about in this situation.
 

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The breeding is a little close for my tastes. Talk to the breeder about it, if they're worth buying from they'll be able to tell you exactly why they are making this paring. Inbreeding concentrates genetics. When it's done in dogs, it's often done to increase the predictability of the puppies. Concentrated retrieving instinct, concentrated structure, etc. So one reason a close breeding might be made is to strengthen the prepotence of good heads in the breeder's lines, or to cement a certain dog's excellent temperament and trainability.

I'm a little more concerned about the lack of titles on the front and back ends, than the names themselves. The red names a pretty far back in the tree, and sparse, so their influence on the litter isn't much. What is the breeder breeding for? With the lack of show champions, this looks like a field lines pedigree, but the registered names sound more like bench names than field names.
 

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I'm a little more concerned about the lack of titles on the front and back ends, than the names themselves. The red names a pretty far back in the tree, and sparse, so their influence on the litter isn't much. What is the breeder breeding for? With the lack of show champions, this looks like a field lines pedigree, but the registered names sound more like bench names than field names.
This caught my eye too which is why I asked about showing the dogs. I would avoid a breeder who breeds just to sell the pups...
 

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I don't want to get into another debate over PDE, but I have to disagree strongly with the idea that inbreeding or linebreeding either makes no difference or has a positive impact on health. The fact that it's common or accepted within breeding circles doesn't make it any more sound, regardless how many titles are in the pedigree. To a certain extent, inbreeding is unavoidable within purebred dogs because it has been done for so long, but I think it's still something to be careful of. I'd also note that Daleabby Knightfever was also linebred in this pedigree.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Hi, yes the breeder has sent us photos of both parents and we're able to view them when we go to view the puppies.

I've found another copy of the chart, and one of the grand parents has Imp Deu after their name, does this mean anything in particular? This would be our first dog so we're still reading up on everything:


Thanks!
 

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I was able to find the breeder's website. Looks mostly above board to me. If the dog is "just a pet" I think in all likelihood you'll be very happy with your dog. They health test and seem reasonably active with their dogs. Just as a note, showing the dog doesn't mean they will let you meet the parents. It means putting the dog in conformation shows so a judge can evaluate how well the dog meets the standard. It's about having someone outside of the breeding program evaluate the dogs so you don't get kennel blind.

I would probably not buy from this breeder, but I'm pretty sure my reasons for buying a dog are different from yours. The breeding is too close for my tastes, they are not breeding for the kinds of activities I want to do with my dogs (competitive sports), and the dogs aren't my "type," or style, of Labrador.

There are definitely worse breeders you could be buying from. Meet the parents, a couple of times if you can, watch how they interact with their owners, and if you can live with that, I don't think you are setting yourself up for failure if you put money down.

EDIT: I'm pretty sure Imp Deu is probably just a kennel name of who owns the dog.
 

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Imp Deu would mean the dog was a German import I believe. Imp is generally short for import, and Deu is generally short for Deutschland or Germany.

Yeah I am also more concerned with the lack of titles in the front of the pedigree. I mean if they are actually working their dogs in real work that is fine, but if not I would be wary of this person. Daleabbey seems to be more of a working line from their website info. But the owner of the dam, seems to do nothing with their dogs, just from the little information given. If that is not the truth, then so be it, but I can only go by what I see. A lot of UK breeders tend to be pretty vague on their websites.

Edit- Yeah I was right Bradston is a breeder in Germany, Miramonte imported him to the UK. If something like that is at the end of the register name and in parenthesis it is generally means the dog was imported.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the input everyone, the dog would just be a pet, no breeding, work or show purposes in mind, so judging from what people have told me, the breeder we're interested in buying from noted earlier would be fine for this purpose, as a pet.
 

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Thanks for the input everyone, the dog would just be a pet, no breeding, work or show purposes in mind, so judging from what people have told me, the breeder we're interested in buying from noted earlier would be fine for this purpose, as a pet.
I would think so. Just having the pedigree available is a favorable sign. You will be a better judge of the breeder's character than us. It's usually fairly obvious when a breeder has good intentions or not.
 
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