[Spirit_of_Cotons]

My Grandmother owned a sweet dog, Poco and he was labeled a Sheltie. Well all the Shelties I've seen are small. While Poco had the personality and looks of a Sheltie, his height was probably that of a Collie. He was tall!! He was even dubbed the "Lassie dog" by some kids.

He was up to my knees and I'm 5'6ft. I have pictures of him, but would have to show you via e-mail because I'm not so good with this photobucket stuff. So is it possible that a dog could be a Collie/Sheltie mix?

 

[Laurelin]

What do you mean by 'looks of a sheltie'.

Shelties vary in size wildly. I've known some at 15 lbs or less then some greater than 40 lbs. My shelties ranged from 17/18 lbs, to 25 lbs, to 35 lbs.

 

[Amaryllis]

All the shelties I've ever seen were/are smaller than Kabota, so less than 45 lbs. PM me, I can put the pic up on photobucket and then put it in this thread.

 

[Spirit_of_Cotons]

Laurelin--what I mean is that he looks exactly as a Sheltie is supposed to look like. I'll google Sheltie and show you a picture: http://sarasotadog.com/files/2012/06/sheltieatbeach1.jpg And I didn't know that Shelties can come in different sizes, that's interesting thank you.

Amaryllis--same here! All the Shelties I've seen are the AKC small size; smaller than your dog in your avatar. Thank you so much for helping! I'll send you my e-mail address in a pm and then show you a picture of Poco.

 

[InkedMarie]

The dog in my avatar was Tucker, avsheltie. He was 20" tall and weighed 34 lean pounds.

 

[Amaryllis]

Tada! The dog in question:

and

 

[Laurelin]

Looks like a fat, oversized sheltie. You can't really tell a sheltie/collie mix. ALL shelties have collie mixed in fairly recently. There are often dogs that will be throwbacks to that collie blood and have a more collie type head or be larger.

 

[Willowy]

I always thought Shelties were just small Collies? LOL, am I wrong? That dog looks like every Collie I've ever seen. . .

 

[InkedMarie]

I always thought Shelties were just small Collies? LOL, am I wrong? That dog looks like every Collie I've ever seen. . .

They're two completely different breeds. I'm surprised after all your years here you didn't know that.

 

[Willowy]

They're two completely different breeds. I'm surprised after all your years here you didn't know that.

I know they're separate breeds NOW. And I know they developed in different areas. But I thought their backgrounds were of the same types. But, as I said, that dog looks just like every Collie I've ever seen, and every Sheltie I've ever seen looks like a small Collie. So I guess I can't think of any difference in appearance between a regular-sized Collie and a large Sheltie.

 

[cshellenberger]

So, do you think that Min pins are just miniature Dobermans (like so many people seem to) or perhaps you think the Klee Kai is just a miniature Husky. Just because a dog is used in the development a breed or has a common ancestry doesn't mean they are the same breed.

 

[sheltiemom]

It's not uncommon for shelties to be over the standard size. My sheltie is close to 40 lbs and his back comes to my knee when we're both standing. He is definitely purebred and from a good breeder. My ex's sheltie, that we got at the same time, is 28 lbs and he is considerably shorter. The picture posted looks like a sheltie, just a larger, overweight one. Very cute guy though, makes me want a sable.

 

[Spirit_of_Cotons]

Amaryllis--thank you again!

Willowy--a lot of dogs are like that. Shelties and Collies; Samoyeds and Eskies; Min Pins and Dobies as cshellenberger pointed out and there are probably others out there that I can't remember right now. But don't feel bad, it's okay. I just learned about the American Shepherd and here I just thought they were mini Aussies. But I learned there a complete separate breed.

Yes, all I know Poco is overweight. And okay, so Shelties can come in different sizes, thanks and cool! Yes, sheltiemom--Poco was a very pretty dog.

 

[Laurelin]

I always thought Shelties were just small Collies? LOL, am I wrong? That dog looks like every Collie I've ever seen. . .

I know they're separate breeds NOW. And I know they developed in different areas. But I thought their backgrounds were of the same types. But, as I said, that dog looks just like every Collie I've ever seen, and every Sheltie I've ever seen looks like a small Collie. So I guess I can't think of any difference in appearance between a regular-sized Collie and a large Sheltie.

Collies were a landrace breed. The original dogs were more along the lines of a general farm dog. You have a lot of breeds that eventually come out of this general dog. Border collies, Welsh Sheepdogs, Rough and Smooth Collies, Shelties, English Shepherds, Koolies, Aussies, Bearded Collies, etc. All have various relation to each other. All distinct breeds, bred for different types of work/show.

A sheltie isn't a collie in miniature. It's not a size variety of a rough collie like miniature poodles and standard poodles are a size variety. It's kind of like the same way the MAS isn't a true 'miniature aussie'. Shelties come from completely different foundation stock on the shetland islands. They were not very set in type but were crossed often to dogs that were border collie-esque from the mainland. The Victorian age show collie was also being developed at the same time and people decided to push shelties towards a more uniform type, which ended up being the rough collie look. To do so, they snuck in show collies and called them unregistered shelties. It's part of why there's such a size issue in the breed.

Shelties and collies also do look different and have different proportions and head types though and so on. It's probably less apparent if you don't have either breed, but I can tell from a picture right away if it's a sheltie or a collie. Shelties also come in more colors/patterns than collies. Shelties can be bicolor, collies cannot. They're always tri (merle or black) or sable. Shelties don't come in coat varieties either, whereas collies do. They also have different temperaments from collies.

 

[LittleFr0g]

Very well said, Laurelin. Collies and Shelties are completely different breeds, although I certainly had plenty of people try to tell me our Shelties were "miniature collies" back when I was a kid. Was always fun educating the adults on it, given that I was 12 at the time, lol.

 

[Laurelin]

I always got the miniature collies too with mine. For anyone interested here's some neat pictures: http://www.portmazathe.nl/ped/statichtml/earliest.html

 

[spanielorbust]

Very well said, Laurelin. Collies and Shelties are completely different breeds, although I certainly had plenty of people try to tell me our Shelties were "miniature collies" back when I was a kid. Was always fun educating the adults on it, given that I was 12 at the time, lol.

I believe the important point, for the layperson, is that Collie was used early in the Sheltie breed and that 'type' was bred toward. Different foundation stock, yes, but it is obvious that small Collie type was favored. Apparently Toy Spaniels were also used but we don't see many Shelties with drop ears. That type was bred out.

SOB