[DApple]

Hey guys!

I have a very small 12 week old Chihuahua (I believe she's about a pound and a half now) and clicker training seems to be going better than fair. She knows "sit" very well, sometimes she'll get "down" and sometimes she'll get "shake." (both down and shake aren't 100%, depends on how excited she is). I understand at this age to keep training sessions short!

There is no problem getting her to do the action, but when I click and when she hears the click, she'll get up on her hind legs as if super excited about the click. I think it's the cutest thing, but when it comes to commands like "down" she'll go down but when I click she'll get right back up, hind legs front paws up like a "yay!!" expression. I want to train her to remain down. Do I need to say "down" and then "stay" then click? Or is this just natural for a Chihuahua puppy this small and young?

Thanks for the advice in advance!

 

[L Kathryn]

From what you said, it sounds like she thinks the click means beg. You can try luring her back into position (the sit would probably be easiest) with the treat, click, then give the treat to her before she has a chance to move. You may have to repeat until she understands that the click means treat, not another action.

 

[Nil]

Well, depends what you want to for her to do. I don't like to use a "stay" because ideally, when I say "sit" that means 'sit until I tell you to do something else or release you.' But if you want to teach a stay you definitely can. Some people like the extra command because they feel it gives the dog more communication as to what they are supposed to be doing.

In clicker training, the click means "yes! That is right!" and thus ends the behavior. So when she sits and then you click, the click signaled the end of the behavior and thus she is allowed to get up and do whatever. (Plus that sounds too cute!) If you want to teach duration then you basically start slow and one option is doing "chutes and ladders".

So tell her down. Count to 1 Mississippi in your head then click/treat. Put her back in a down and count to 2 Mississippi's in your head then click and treat. Do this again but count to 3. Oops! She got up at 2 Mississippi's. Simply don't reward. Put her back in a down and count 1 Mississippi and then click/treat and end the session (always end them on a high note). If it goes slow start jackpotting at the higher seconds. If you know she can down for 3 seconds and you get her to 4-5 seconds then jackpot her! That way she knows that waiting longer gets the better rewards too.

Over time the dog will be able to get to 3 seconds, then you try and get them to 5 seconds. Then get them to 10 seconds. At 10 seconds you can try adding some distractions like doing jumping jacks. Or run around the dog. Any time you add a distraction reward heavily for staying in a down position.

This would be how I try it first though.

Edit: To reiterate, when I train my dog a stand command, stand means get on all four paws and don't move. If I give her the hand signal and she stands I will click. She knows click=treat so usually she will then walk over to me (breaking the stand) and that's alright because I clicked the stand and she knows she is getting rewarded for the stand, not the coming forward.

 

[DApple]

Thanks! Great advice! To comment above, I don't click until I achieve the desired action, so she'll get down the floor, like stomach touching the floor, and I click and that's when she jumps up. I should take a video of it (because it really is the cutest thing!!) seems like she gets super excited after the click and for the treat (which is just the standard food I use, nothing special lol but I see a drawback to it now where she won't really eat and rather "play" for her food but that's another issue...)

She won't pop right back up from the click when she is doing the sit command, only when she's doing the down command. Thanks for the advice on duration training. It's so easy to overlook these small but critical steps!

Nil, would you happen to have examples of hand signals that I can teach for these specific commands? So far, I have the usual sit signal where I roll my wrist, a stay, which is palm forward like a stop signal, and a shake which is just palm face up. I can see how that can get confusing with many other things, especially when if people hand her treats with palm face upwards. What is your hand command for stand? I would like to teach her that as well.

 

[DApple]

I don't know if I may be treating too early after the click. It goes like this:

Sit command: Sit! Pup sits, *Click!* Good girl! -Treat
Down command: Sit, pup sits, down, pup goes down, *Click!* POP!!! (puppy jumps up and does her dance!) I sometimes wait for her to settle, then treat, although not that long. <-- is this where to delay treat maybe?

 

[Nil]

Ideally you want every hand signal to look a little different and you don't want to add a cue (a voice cue or a hand signal) until the dog is preforming the desired action. So when I taught stand I put some food in a fist while she was sitting and put it a little above her nose. When her nose lifted to get it, her back feet would pop up and I would click and then open my fist to give her the treat. After it got to the point where I could do that hand motion (fist over nose) and her automatic reaction was to stand did I add "Stand" as a voice cue. Gradually I opened my fist so the cue became a my right flat palm facing sweeping across my body to her nose (if that makes sense. She is in heel position at this point).

I use obedience hand signals for my dog (except for sit and down. I trained sit and down before I knew about Rally so those are different for us)

This site has moving pictures to show hand signals. Most of these are obedience hand signals. The signal for stand they use is the one I am using. (Keep in mind too, in a Rally course the dog is in heel position so the sweeping of the hand signal really prepares the dog and makes this flat palm unique vs. flat palm to mean stay)

 

[Nil]

I don't know if I may be treating too early after the click. It goes like this:

Sit command: Sit! Pup sits, *Click!* Good girl! -Treat
Down command: Sit, pup sits, down, pup goes down, *Click!* POP!!! (puppy jumps up and does her dance!) I sometimes wait for her to settle, then treat, although not that long. <-- is this where to delay treat maybe?

Sounds like the puppy has it. When you clicked where I bolded you signaled the end of the behavior. That click meant "That was right! Be excited cause you got it right!"

To do duration you would do something like this:
Down: "Sit" (dog sits) "Down" (dog downs) *1 mississippi* CLICK/TREAT!
Down:"Sit" (dog sits) "Down" (dog downs) *2 mississippi* CLICK/TREAT!
Down: "Sit" (dog sits) "Down" (dog downs) *2 mississippi* (dog gets up) "Oops!"
Down: "Sit" (dog sits) "Down" (dog downs) *1 mississippi* CLICK/TREAT! YAY!

"xxx" = Means you are saying this
(xxx) = Means dog is doing this
*xxx* = Means you are thinking this


Is your goal to make it so she doesn't jump up after you click? I guess I am a little confused now.

Edit: Since she is also still young you want the treat and click to be simultaneous. So once you click there is a treat on the way to her mouth. Over time you can gradually make that wait time longer but that click meant a treat is coming.

 

[Pawzk9]

Click ends the behavior. When the dog hears the click, his mind automatically goes to the treat that is coming unless you've taught him otherwise. If you want more duration, start holding off on clicking for a second or two - then three, then four. Raise your criteria very gradually. If she's not doing down and shake on cue, go back to naming the behavior while she is doing it instead of asking for it if she's not able to give it to you.

 

[DApple]

Thanks for clearing up the confusion for me. It makes perfect sense. You watch all these videos online about clicker training and it's like, "Hey waaaaaaaiit a minute...how come your puppy just sits there after the click and mine jumps around after?!" I'll try the duration training!

 

[petpeeve]

I want to train her to remain down.

If I'm understanding your situation correctly, you want to try to alleviate the 'pop up' that is occuring immediately after the click ? If that is your goal, then you could try feeding for position. I wouldn't really EXPECT the dog to stay down because yes, the click does end the behaviour. However, if you are finding that the pop up is annoying, for whatever reason, .. FFP may help.

In other words, administer / toss the treat to the spot where you'd prefer that she remains, in this case DOWN. At present, you may actually be inadvertantly encouraging the dog to pop up because that's where you're possibly delivering the treat at, ie: UP and close to you. (???)

So, ... try to be aware of where you are rewarding, and adjust accordingly if need be.

edit: I believe L Kathryn eluded to this earlier in the thread, response #2, ... I merely expanded on it a little. Not trying to steal anyone's thunder.

 

[KBLover]

If I'm understanding your situation correctly, you want to try to alleviate the 'pop up' that is occuring immediately after the click ? If that is your goal, then you could try feeding for position. I wouldn't really EXPECT the dog to stay down because yes, the click does end the behaviour. However, if you are finding that the pop up is annoying, for whatever reason, .. FFP may help.

Feeding the position is pretty much how Wally and I work for positional/movement/stopping movement type behaviors.

Click doesn't really end things for us - it just says "what you just did was right." Like now, with the new floors, I'm using throw rugs to give him spots to lie down and stay (since the floor is the same now and he used the different color between the tile of the hall and kitchen and dining room to learn borders, so now I use the rugs and our old mat work).

When he went to the rug, I would c/t him. The click didn't have him coming off the rug, I brought the treat to him, even if I'm across the hall. Same when he lied down on it, I marked him for starting to lie down, and I brought/threw the threat to him in position.

I've been told this is a weird way to work, but, hey, Wally's weird, I'm crazy, Wally's crazy, so it works LOL. Duration was pretty much just "re-offering the behavior by not moving" and he kept getting rewarded. Then I would stretch out the time between marks and rewards. If he moved - he got a no-reward signal, so he learned staying down until either another instructional signal or release kept the reward markers and the meat coming, so he built his own duration LOL.