[Jaypee]

Hi

Our Maltese suffers from idiopathic epilepsy. Her seizures are pretty mild compared to some dogs. Between 2 and 5 min episodes. She has had this for years and we tried to avoid using Phenobarbital as she also has a liver shunt. From what I gather Phenobarbital would affect her liver and other organs. Her seizures has progressively got closer and when they were 5 days apart we tried Pexion as it does not have the negative effects of Phenobarbital. On the normal dose her seizures went out to about 7 days apart and our Vet said this was unacceptable so put her on the ma dosage. This moved her seizures out to about 9 days apart. The positive effect was her appetite improved and she had a lot more energy. Again the Vet said this was not good enough and wants us to try Phenobarbital. His logic is she will have a short lifespan if we dont treat her and the negative effects of Phenobarbital will also reduce her lifespan, but she will have a better life without the seizures(But there are dogs where medication does not work for seizures)

My question is has anyone heard of negative effects of CBD oil. My wife has seen someone blame CBD oil for the death of her dog who also had seizures. Any advice on alternatives to Phenobarbital would be welcome.

Thanks from deepest darkest Africa.

 

[DaySleepers]

What I have heard, from reading a practicing vet's blog (I am NOT a veterinary professional myself), is that cannabis is, like chocolate, considerably more toxic to dogs than it is to us. CBD oil is extremely variable, and the combinations of compounds will vary in amount and ratio in every batch, making it next to impossible to give accurate doses.

If it's a last resort thing, and you're doing this under the close supervision of your vet, well. That's a hard choice. But it's not something I would EVER attempt without the close supervision of a veterinary professional. Not at our current stage of research and understanding of proper dosage specifically in dogs. I'm honestly in agreement with your vet on this one. I'd rather give my pets a higher quality, but shorter, life than one where they're suffering from seizures, and I don't think I could ever forgive myself if I tried experiment with an untested treatment and caused more harm than good.

 

[Shell]

DaySleepers, from your reading, is it cannabis as a whole that is a danger concern, or THC? Meaning, would CBD isolate have the same toxicity potential?

In legal states, CBD with varying levels of THC can be purchased while other US states CBD is limited to 0.3% THC under the Farm Bill. To avoid even that amount, you'd want a 99.9% CBD isolate.

If one were to decide to try CBD, it would be an absolute must to only purchase from a company that does third party lab testing and provides those results without even being asked.

I think deciding dosage and such of the dog's current meds is a judgment call that if it were me and my dog, I'd have to consider how much an extra day or two between "mild" seizures seems to change her quality of life. It may be a lot or it may be barely noticeable.

 

[spittoon]

I did not know anything about CBD oil when my pup started having seizures. She was a wonderful Pomeranian and was on Phenobarbital her whole life. She passed last Sept at 15 yrs old and other than having a very increased desire for food had no side effects. Her seizures were only 2 times a year [ on Phenobarbital ]and much much milder than before [very hard to watch her go through those bad ones]. My vet told me the side effects and the liver kidney problems and was kinda amazed every time he saw her. If I was to have another dog with this issue I may try the CBD but if I did not see significant results I would not hesitate to go the Phenobarbital route again. 9 days apart would not work for me unless the seizures were so mild that I could hardly notice them. Having said this , every dog is different and that is why I would try the CBD first. Good luck to you and your little one, I hope in either case things go well for you.

 

[DaySleepers]

This is the blog post I'm thinking of. She does mention that it's the CBD that's thought to have anti-seizure effects, but I know that I, personally, would want a darn solid guarantee of the CBD and THC content of the oil, as you said Shell. I don't know how easy it is to get thoroughly tested CBD oil where Jaypee is. I admit I haven't done a lot of independent research on this, largely because there's no way to legally obtain any cannabis-based medicine or supplements here for humans or animals, so perhaps there's more options than this one blog led me to believe. I know it's hugely beneficial to many people, but there's just so little solid research done in animals that I, personally, would err on the side of caution with my own pets.

 

[Jaypee]

Hi All

Thanks for the input. From what I had read up, it would have to be CBD oil with no THC[/U]. Problem here is regulatory bodies are so lax, we just had 180 humans die from Listerosis due to the non checking of food production facilities, so I would worry about the quality of CBD oil made locally. Would probably be best to import from USA or Europe.

My Vet thinks with Phenobarbital she will have about 4 years and without he cant say, but he says the seizures will get worse and closer to one another. As we are not at home during the day, she could even now have more seizures than we are aware of.

I think the best is to try the Phenobarbital and if the seizures are once in 3 months like the Vet thinks, then she is better off. If she gets another 4 years of good life, then she would at least have got to 9. If the Phenobarbital either does not work at all or the attacks are still very close like say once a month, then even if CBD is not proven, we need to take a chance on it.

So if anyone has seen a reputable site selling CBD oil, let me know.

Thanks again for the input.

 

[Shell]

I think trying the phenobarbital first makes sense.

I do not know the legalities of importing CBD into South Africa so please of course be aware of that as you would not want to get in trouble at customs. As far as I know, it is legal to possess but always check regs first.

The CBDistillery is one source which provides test results and every product has its batch number labeled on it. One option would be CBD isolate slabs (a solid) which you then mix into a carrier oil like olive oil or coconut oil. Cheaper (but not cheap) than oils or tinctures and lower risk of breaking in transit compared to a liquid.

 

[Jaypee]

Hi Shell

Had a look at CBDistillery and their product looks good. Will have to check with Customs and as they do not see outside the USA, may have to get it via the UK where I have family.

Will post about it if we get to that stage. Hope the Phenobarbital works.

Also have questions about our two boys and marking. What forum is a good one to post questions about this?

Thanks for the help

JP

 

[radiantos]

I feel very sorry for your dog. I have never heard about the negative effects of CBD oil on dogs.

 

[DaySleepers]

This post is over two years old so I'm closing it to further replies. Feel free to chime in on one of our recent discussions or make a thread of your own!