Can toy and small size dogs get bloat?
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Although it is more common in large and Giant breeds, it is possible for any size, breed of dog to bloat, if under the "right" conditions..
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Here. are a couple of links:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastric_dilatation_volvulus
http://www.globalspan.net/bloat.htm
Please take what is said in these links with a grain of salt and do not stress if you are unable to provide everything listed. No one knows for sure What exactly causes it to happen or what prevents it. Some even believe it to be a hereditary condition that is triggered by those things named.. These are just some of the more common things believed to either cause or prevent.
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Nobody really knows, although there are a lot of traditional beliefs and anecdotal reports. Personally I think genetics play a huge role in making a dog susceptible.
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Since we're on this topic anyway, can anyone point me towards a definitive answer as to whether or not adding water to kibble that contains citric acid can cause bloat? Sydney isn't exactly a susceptible breed, and I don't really see how it could effect anything, but I'm interested in hearing at least what the logic behind it is. It seems like one of those things that gets mindlessly parroted and I can't seem to get to the source of it. I always add water, no matter what the food. It makes it more appetizing and I can be sure she's getting enough to drink. But then I hear this citric acid thing floating around...
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It's my understanding that there was a retrospective study done that suggested an association, but as I know you're aware that is hardly a definitive answer of anything. Generally I consider retrospective studies as basis for deciding what warrants further study rather than drawing conclusions from them, but sadly I am in the minority, especially when it comes to the internet. 
ETA: Kafka, here's a comment on a subscription site (can't link, sorry) in response to the same question:
"The client is likely referring to the JAVMA papers published in 2000 by Glickman et al. They compared breed related and non-dietary factors of dogs that developed GDV, and associated risk factors of GDV from an epidemiological standpoint. Although not clearly stated, it has been gleaned by many readers that pre-moistening dry food that was preserved with citric acid was a risk factor for GDV. These, plus similar papers subsequently published, look at the ingredient lists of diets from affected and unaffected dogs and evaluate commercial pet-food labels as to the order of ingredients and guaranteed analysis to try to draw conclusions regarding risk factors for GDV. In order to do this, huge assumptions had to be made, and these studies do not take into account variables such as manufacturing, ingredient quality, diet changes and formula changes from entry to the end of the study, or individual unreported feeding practices.
These studies underscore the limited information that can be interpreted from product labels. Unfortunately, we now have more myth regarding the impact of nutrition on GDV that will take years to sort through, as apposed to valuable scientific data. We simply cannot make the sweeping statements often heard (no citrate, no preservatives, no corn, no oils, meat only proteins). What is so intriguing is that these are tangible statements people can grasp onto as “the cause” of GDV. After reviewing numerous papers, what information we do have regarding risk factors is that feeding large, single meals per day, rapid ingestion, increased thoracic chest depth to width ratios, and having a 1st degree relative are risk factors, while feeding smaller, multiple meals daily is not a risk factor. The best recommendation to date is to feed multiple small meals, yet provide adequate energy for these large and giant dogs. And do not breed dogs that have had a GDV or a 1st degree relative with GDV. We do not have any evidence that a particular type of food, dry, canned, or raw, has any impact or inciting ability with regards to GDV. We do have evidence that our feeding methods may influence the incidence."
ETA: Kafka, here's a comment on a subscription site (can't link, sorry) in response to the same question:
"The client is likely referring to the JAVMA papers published in 2000 by Glickman et al. They compared breed related and non-dietary factors of dogs that developed GDV, and associated risk factors of GDV from an epidemiological standpoint. Although not clearly stated, it has been gleaned by many readers that pre-moistening dry food that was preserved with citric acid was a risk factor for GDV. These, plus similar papers subsequently published, look at the ingredient lists of diets from affected and unaffected dogs and evaluate commercial pet-food labels as to the order of ingredients and guaranteed analysis to try to draw conclusions regarding risk factors for GDV. In order to do this, huge assumptions had to be made, and these studies do not take into account variables such as manufacturing, ingredient quality, diet changes and formula changes from entry to the end of the study, or individual unreported feeding practices.
These studies underscore the limited information that can be interpreted from product labels. Unfortunately, we now have more myth regarding the impact of nutrition on GDV that will take years to sort through, as apposed to valuable scientific data. We simply cannot make the sweeping statements often heard (no citrate, no preservatives, no corn, no oils, meat only proteins). What is so intriguing is that these are tangible statements people can grasp onto as “the cause” of GDV. After reviewing numerous papers, what information we do have regarding risk factors is that feeding large, single meals per day, rapid ingestion, increased thoracic chest depth to width ratios, and having a 1st degree relative are risk factors, while feeding smaller, multiple meals daily is not a risk factor. The best recommendation to date is to feed multiple small meals, yet provide adequate energy for these large and giant dogs. And do not breed dogs that have had a GDV or a 1st degree relative with GDV. We do not have any evidence that a particular type of food, dry, canned, or raw, has any impact or inciting ability with regards to GDV. We do have evidence that our feeding methods may influence the incidence."
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This was about what I was assuming. Thank you for posting that.It's my understanding that there was a retrospective study done that suggested an association, but as I know you're aware that is hardly a definitive answer of anything. Generally I consider retrospective studies as basis for deciding what warrants further study rather than drawing conclusions from them, but sadly I am in the minority, especially when it comes to the internet.
ETA: Kafka, here's a comment on a subscription site (can't link, sorry) in response to the same question:
"The client is likely referring to the JAVMA papers published in 2000 by Glickman et al. They compared breed related and non-dietary factors of dogs that developed GDV, and associated risk factors of GDV from an epidemiological standpoint. Although not clearly stated, it has been gleaned by many readers that pre-moistening dry food that was preserved with citric acid was a risk factor for GDV. These, plus similar papers subsequently published, look at the ingredient lists of diets from affected and unaffected dogs and evaluate commercial pet-food labels as to the order of ingredients and guaranteed analysis to try to draw conclusions regarding risk factors for GDV. In order to do this, huge assumptions had to be made, and these studies do not take into account variables such as manufacturing, ingredient quality, diet changes and formula changes from entry to the end of the study, or individual unreported feeding practices.
These studies underscore the limited information that can be interpreted from product labels. Unfortunately, we now have more myth regarding the impact of nutrition on GDV that will take years to sort through, as apposed to valuable scientific data. We simply cannot make the sweeping statements often heard (no citrate, no preservatives, no corn, no oils, meat only proteins). What is so intriguing is that these are tangible statements people can grasp onto as “the cause” of GDV. After reviewing numerous papers, what information we do have regarding risk factors is that feeding large, single meals per day, rapid ingestion, increased thoracic chest depth to width ratios, and having a 1st degree relative are risk factors, while feeding smaller, multiple meals daily is not a risk factor. The best recommendation to date is to feed multiple small meals, yet provide adequate energy for these large and giant dogs. And do not breed dogs that have had a GDV or a 1st degree relative with GDV. We do not have any evidence that a particular type of food, dry, canned, or raw, has any impact or inciting ability with regards to GDV. We do have evidence that our feeding methods may influence the incidence."
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3,511 Posts
Jubel had a bloat scare about 5-6 months after I brought him home and we really don't know what the cause was. I got home from work and my brother told me Jubel had thrown up 2-3 times in the last few hours. I took Jubel out for a short walk and he threw up twice on the walk. Called the vet's office when we got home and asked if I should bring him in, they said yes and the next appointment opening was in about 20 minutes if I could make it in. Vets office is about 2.5 miles down the road from my house so we were there.
Jubel gets an exam and everything looks and feels fine, they take an x-ray to be safe and everything still looks fine. They tell me to fast him for the next 24 hours and make him some chicken or beef and rice for his next meal. We go home and no more throwing up but I could tell he wasn't feeling well. Next evening I feed him some beef and rice for dinner, 1.5-2 hours later he's throwing up again. Just fluid though, his dinner is staying down. He's spitting up multiple times so I call the vet back and they say to bring him back in, it's about 9pm at this point. Thank God my vet's normal hours are open until 10pm so it's not "emergency" prices yet. Another exam and he still looks and feels fine. Repeat. His belly FEELS fine. Vet decides to do another x-ray (no charge) just to ease his mind. Jubel's stomach is bloated to 4X the size it was in the previous evenings x-ray.
So Jubel's gets to spend the night at the vets. I get to sign all sorts of surgical consent forms just in case, do I want blood work done, do I want post surgery pain meds, etc... The plan was to put a tube down his throat and drain his stomach and then watch him overnight. In the morning run a barium series and of course be ready to operate if needed and his stomach did flip. In the end I got very lucky and draining his stomach did the trick and they didn't need to do anything else and I got to pick him up after work the next day. The combined 2 days of vet visits came to about $1500 if I recall correctly.
A few days later while doing the rounds in my yard picking up poop I found what looked to be more rope than poop so I suspect this was all caused by a partial blockage from him eating bits of his rope chew toy. He no longer has a rope toy to chew on, only comes out for tug now. As a precaution to prevent possible bloat scares with Jubel he eats after exercise or close to 2 hours before exercise, I don't let him gulp down large volumes of water, he has a slow feed bowl and frequently eats from a dispensing toy.
Jubel gets an exam and everything looks and feels fine, they take an x-ray to be safe and everything still looks fine. They tell me to fast him for the next 24 hours and make him some chicken or beef and rice for his next meal. We go home and no more throwing up but I could tell he wasn't feeling well. Next evening I feed him some beef and rice for dinner, 1.5-2 hours later he's throwing up again. Just fluid though, his dinner is staying down. He's spitting up multiple times so I call the vet back and they say to bring him back in, it's about 9pm at this point. Thank God my vet's normal hours are open until 10pm so it's not "emergency" prices yet. Another exam and he still looks and feels fine. Repeat. His belly FEELS fine. Vet decides to do another x-ray (no charge) just to ease his mind. Jubel's stomach is bloated to 4X the size it was in the previous evenings x-ray.
So Jubel's gets to spend the night at the vets. I get to sign all sorts of surgical consent forms just in case, do I want blood work done, do I want post surgery pain meds, etc... The plan was to put a tube down his throat and drain his stomach and then watch him overnight. In the morning run a barium series and of course be ready to operate if needed and his stomach did flip. In the end I got very lucky and draining his stomach did the trick and they didn't need to do anything else and I got to pick him up after work the next day. The combined 2 days of vet visits came to about $1500 if I recall correctly.
A few days later while doing the rounds in my yard picking up poop I found what looked to be more rope than poop so I suspect this was all caused by a partial blockage from him eating bits of his rope chew toy. He no longer has a rope toy to chew on, only comes out for tug now. As a precaution to prevent possible bloat scares with Jubel he eats after exercise or close to 2 hours before exercise, I don't let him gulp down large volumes of water, he has a slow feed bowl and frequently eats from a dispensing toy.
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1,765 Posts
I had a bloat scare with my mutt a few month back. He doesn't eat fast, is fairly small, no citric acid in the food, etc, but I'm not really sure how else to explain what happened.
He acted weird not long after I had fed him. I picked him up and put him on my bed. He was getting worse and was obviously in some kind of discomfort with excessive panting. I tried to give him some water and he wanted to drink quite a bit but it didn't help. Then I noticed his belly was extremely ballooned and that's when I went "F***"
I carried him downstairs and as I was getting ready to take him to the emergency vet, he projectile vomited all over the floor and then he was fine. I have no clue what caused it or what it actually was but that's pretty much the only time I've been glad he vomited on the carpet.
He acted weird not long after I had fed him. I picked him up and put him on my bed. He was getting worse and was obviously in some kind of discomfort with excessive panting. I tried to give him some water and he wanted to drink quite a bit but it didn't help. Then I noticed his belly was extremely ballooned and that's when I went "F***"
I carried him downstairs and as I was getting ready to take him to the emergency vet, he projectile vomited all over the floor and then he was fine. I have no clue what caused it or what it actually was but that's pretty much the only time I've been glad he vomited on the carpet.
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