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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hey dogforum!

There is someone at work that thinks that bybs are fine. He says that charging $2,000 for a puppy is fine. He also thinks that it is not wrong to breed two dogs that are not vet checked. It goes on.

Just for a refresher what are some arguments that I could use against him and make him see that bybs are wrong. I'm frustrated. please help! :)

Please post your reasons you think bybs are wrong, so that I can help this guy see...

Thanks in advance,
Corteo

P.S. He calls Dogforum "arrogant". Defend your honor Dogforum!
 

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Personally, I'd find this an argument not worth having.
 

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show him a list of purebreeds in shelters, and show that you don't have to pay 2 grand to get a purebred.

I think I'd have to stay away from said person as well, but try to change his mind. If you can convert one person's thinking, good for you.
 

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Is HE the BYB? If so, just walk away, the arguing will do NO good because he's making $$$$ and that's all he cares about.
 

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Ok then, I'd pay 2000.00 for a dog of certian breeds (Mastiff, English Bulldog Great Dane, ect) that are harder to produce but ONLY if they were from HEALTH TESTED parents (full CERF, OFA certified Silver or Gold) and were SHOW POTENTIAL with one HECK of a Health gaurantee.

Pet Quality on these SAME breeds, I'd pay 1200-1600 from the SAME breeder.

Other, more common, easier to produce breeds, 1200 show quality 800 pet.

Take it from the perspective of HIS pocket book.

1. Pay 2000.00 from a BYB that does NO Health testing and take a chance on paying MUCH MORE in vet bills for cardiac, orthopedic and eye problems that could have been avoided from health tested parents.

2. Pay the same OR LESS from a reputable hobby breeder for a dog from HEALTH TESTED parents that IF something Congenital pops up the breeder will be there to help him through and possibly even pay all or part of the treatement.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ok then, I'd pay 2000.00 for a dog of certian breeds (Mastiff, English Bulldog Great Dane, ect) that are harder to produce but ONLY if they were from HEALTH TESTED parents (full CERF, OFA certified Silver or Gold) and were SHOW POTENTIAL with one HECK of a Health gaurantee.
He has said that it's smart for any breeder to charge that much because if people will pay for it, it's their fault.

I guess what I'm looking for, is your definition of a reputable breeder, and your definition of a byb. He doesn't see a difference.

Thanks for all the replies for far.
 

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BYB is a meaningless term. It lumps all the breeders just a hair below the threshold of a reputable hobby breeder to those just a hair above the threshold of a puppy-mill with one derogatory, inflammatory term, often used in the same breath a puppy pills.

Some breeders that fall under the BYB tent are very good, but not the best, others are very bad, but not the worst. Most fall somewhere in the middle.

They are also the breeders most people, including most people on this board, have gotten and will get their purebred puppies from.
 

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This is the Adoption contract contract of one of the MOST impeccable mastiff breeders I know. Look at her site, you'll see ALL the pieces of a reputable breeder. HEalth testing, Whelping box socialization, rock solid health contracts, takes ALL her dogs back if they can't be kept by the puppy adopter (First right of rescention). She keeps in touch with the Puppy's family and is there for them pretty much 24/7.

http://www.celestialmastiffs.com/showcontract.html
http://www.celestialmastiffs.com/showcontract.html

I LOVE this page, outlining the costs of raising a MAstiff pup.

http://www.celestialmastiffs.com/cost.html

This page outlines what you should expect in a breeder, the health testing ect.

http://www.celestialmastiffs.com/buy.html
 

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BYB is a meaningless term. It lumps all the breeders just a hair below the threshold of a reputable hobby breeder to those just a hair above the threshold of a puppy-mill with one derogatory, inflammatory term, often used in the same breath a puppy pills.

Some breeders that fall under the BYB tent are very good, but not the best, others are very bad, but not the worst. Most fall somewhere in the middle.
Seriously? There are BYB's and there are reputable breeders. It's not too hard to define them. Reputable breeders breed to improve the breed, they health test and compete in various arenas that prove that the dog is worthy of being bred. Byb's do not do any of the above.


They are also the breeders most people, including most people on this board, have gotten and will get their purebred puppies from.
Again, I don't know where you get your information from, but you shouldn't generalize.
 

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BYB is a meaningless term. It lumps all the breeders just a hair below the threshold of a reputable hobby breeder to those just a hair above the threshold of a puppy-mill with one derogatory, inflammatory term, often used in the same breath a puppy pills.

Some breeders that fall under the BYB tent are very good, but not the best, others are very bad, but not the worst. Most fall somewhere in the middle.

They are also the breeders most people, including most people on this board, have gotten and will get their purebred puppies from.

Kasey,
It's very easy to detemine if you're dealing with a BYB or a reputable one, it just takes some research and TRULY look at the site of the breeder. You should then ask questions, a reptable breeder will be MORE than glad to answer them and will probably interview you just a thouroghly.

I'm sorry, but the breeders that fall under the BYB tent are NOT very good. They are NOT doing all they can to IMPROVE the breed they have chosen. THAT"S what makes them BYB's. Yes, there are a few with 'good' intentions, but you know what they say about good intentions.
 

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Kasey,
It's very easy to detemine if you're dealing with a BYB or a reputable one, it just takes some research and TRULY look at the site of the breeder. You should then ask questions, a reptable breeder will be MORE than glad to answer them and will probably interview you just a thouroghly.

I'm sorry, but the breeders that fall under the BYB tent are NOT very good. They are NOT doing all they can to IMPROVE the breed they have chosen. THAT"S what makes them BYB's. Yes, there are a few with 'good' intentions, but you know what they say about good intentions.
I did not say it was not easy to determine if you are dealing with a reputable breeder vs. a BYB, I said the term BYB covers a broad range of breeder quality.

If reputable hobby breeders are the best, and puppy mills are the worst, then everything in between from almost the best to almost the worst falls into the category of BYB. This is true because it is self evident, not because it is my opinion.

Seriously? There are BYB's and there are reputable breeders. It's not too hard to define them. Reputable breeders breed to improve the breed, they health test and compete in various arenas that prove that the dog is worthy of being bred. Byb's do not do any of the above.
No, many BYBs do some, but not all, of the above. Others don't so any of the above.

If a breeder meets all the requirements of a reputable hobby breeder, but chooses to breed for temperament instead of conformation, does that automatically make them a bad breeder, or are there just a little less good then the reputable hobby breeder?

Again, I don't know where you get your information from, but you shouldn't generalize.
I don't need to generalize. Reputable hobby breeder supply only a small percentage of the demand for purebred puppies, so most people will not be able to get one.
 

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I spoke to my breeder on several occasions before she would even think about selling me a puppy and I came with many many good references which she checked all of. BYB usually care only about the dollar and rarely turn anyone down for buying a pup. Heck is they run out they usually just breed again to make more....money.
What Carla said about the health checks... I would never ever buy a dog from anyone that did not do all of the health checks. Not just hips. I would only want to buy from a breeder that can for the most part recite the standard of the breed. They should certainly know what they are breeding for. They should be able to tell you about any problems in their lines several generations back. I would like to see longevity in the lines they are breeding. Titles and temperament certifications in my breed, such as TDI and or CGC. BYB usually don't show or do anything with their dogs. note I say Usually. Just because you show a few times doesn't mean that your dog is breeding quality either.
 

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Kasey, I'm pretty positive that the OP doesn't appreciate their thread being hijacked and taken for ransom. Perhaps start a new thread on your dislikes for certain terms?
 

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You can't really make an informed decision without having an operational definition to start from. Before we can say why a BYB is bad, we have to know what a BYB *is.* For example, I know a person who health tests all of her dogs, gives them ideal care, carefully researches pedigrees, and produces a limited number of litters per year. However, she does not show her dogs, despite them meeting show quality standards and despite the pups that she sells having some success in the ring when they are shown. I also know a hobby breeder who gets more dogs every year, provides excellent general care for those dogs, does not health test before breeding, and breeds to the same males belonging to someone else out of friendship even though 75% of the dogs she produces from those breedings are pet quality. She does show her dogs, but she has limited success showing the dogs that she keeps and sells the rest of her puppies to pet homes.

Which is the BYB?

That being said, in my opinion the "real" issue in terms of breeding that has any effect on shelter populations is that of "designer dog" producers. People who buy purebred dogs might never go to shelters to get a mixed breed or mutt--which is fine, that's their right. However, the people who produce mixed breeds under fancy names do actually have an effect on the people who would ordinarily adopt from shelters by encouraging them the to buy for a high price the same type of dog they could get for as little as one-tenth the cost of that designer dog.

Why isn't PeTA targeting these people, if they were really concerned about the "ethical" treatment of animals?

Anyway, I don't care about BYBs in general nearly as much as I do about the BYBs who produce these obscene mixed breeds.
 
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