Breed Bias

I'm absolutely terrified of anything that looks like a pit bull. I don't go near them, and nearly have a coronary every time I see one and I'm walking my six month old puppy. But that's because I had three really scary "pit bull" experiences in less than a week and pit bull-esque dogs have become a trigger for my post traumatic stress disorder.

So I do not like pit bulls.

HOWEVER.*

I also strongly dislike cats, lines, the weird mushrooms that come in hot and sour soup, and ringing phones. Cats, lines, the weird mushrooms and ringing phones, like pit bulls have a right to exist. Do I thinking banning them is the answer? No. Not at all. The pictures of the aftermath of the Denver banning made me cry--and I looked at them after I decided I disliked pitbulls. Humans have done way too much awful stuff to these poor dogs to get lazy and decide killing them all is the answer. Pitbulls have as much a right to exist as I have to avoid them--which I readily will.

While I 100% agree that any dog's good or bad*temperament*has largely to do with the owner, I also don't agree with the whole 'blame the deed not the breed' mantra. Pitbulls were raised to be human friendly/dog aggressive. They obviously can be sweet, loving, loyal family dogs. Be a*responsible*owner--not just because of my dog, but because of YOUR dog. If your bully breed (heck, if your yorkie) causes any lethal damage to my best friend, I will do everything in my power to get YOUR best friend culled. If my dog starts it, I have the luxury of knowing your maligned dog will probably be blamed.*(Not that I would use that way out).

And that sucks. I'm really sorry. But you know what also sucks? Not being able to leave my apartment or keep my own dog because of*irresponsible, bad owners. *Also, the pitbulls who I've noted were aggressive towards me were not owned by thugs, gangsters or overly macho jerks. They were owned by a father of two who adopted the perfect family dog, *a graduate students who proudly told me all about the sweetheart pit-mix she rescued, and an older man who had owned several dogs prior to his scottie-pit mix respectively.

I feel like something seriously needs to be done. It sucks not being able to walk my dog at normal hours of the day. It sucks not being able to go to outdoor cafes because, without doubt, one of the more dog aggressive pits in my neighborhood will be there. So whether it's dog specific license, better screening, or steeper fines for even dog attacks, there needs to be more of a deterrent for the stupid yuppie wants to do a "good deed" with no understanding of their breed...

So many owners in Chicago get a pitbull because it's a cool, trendy thing to do and you want feel like a good person. *They decide*to do the morally superior action in the now with no consideration for the choices and mistakes they will make that could have even more devastating moral repercussions in the long run.* Good, responsible dog owners in a dense city area are a MUST. Think of the word 'rescue'. It's a noble idea. But the 'rescue' of the doe-eyed pit they brought home does not stop when they put him in his designer dog bed in they South Loop loft. They need to work with him or her and take every precaution with their training to make sure their raising an*obedient*dog. He or she is relying on them to do so--and they overwhelmingly don't. They're good deed of taking that dog in after being abused/in a dog fighting ring/ about to be put down is completely undone because they don't take the time to address his specific needs and issues.

What's the most frustrating for me is prior to a month ago, I LOVED pits. I never, ever have been scared of a dog, even if they were barking and snarling, let alone a whole breed. I met a three or four awesome owners who knew their dogs and who actually took care of them. But they work that those three or four breed ambassadors did was completely undone and then some by the astonishing amount of owners that have no idea what they are doing.

Do they not understand that, if you get a "bully breed" and it attacks someone, there is a strong chance your bad ownership and awful dog rearing skills will cause that poor animal to be right where you saved him or her from--about to be put down?

Rightfully scared? Were the dogs truly a threat to her or was she simply shocked by her cats being hurt? Prey drive and human aggression are miles apart.

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Watching three of your pet cats being mauled to death and then being pinned against a car by dogs would certainly qualify, in my opinion, for a person to be rightfully scared. There is never an excuse or reason for someone's dog(s) to kill another person's animals especially when the animals are in their own yard. It doesn't matter the breed of dog. If you have a dog with a strong prey drive, you need to be extra vigilant to make sure that your dog is under control at all times. There should never be "Oops, they just happened to get out of the yard and kill the neighbor's pets and terrorized her" situations, even if it means you need to have double gates to keep your dog confined to your property. Sadly, there are always going to be irresponsible owners...as an owner of small dogs, I am always extra careful around any dog that I don't know.

The other day, I saw a very "dangerous" pit mix in the Home Depot....dangerous if you were near her tail that was wagging so hard that it wagged her entire back end. She was getting lots of love from two of the cashiers as she appeared to be a regular customer at the store. She was indeed an excellent ambassador for her breed.

There is never an excuse or reason for someone's dog(s) to kill another person's animals especially when the animals are in their own yard.

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Oh I totally agree when the animals are in their own yards; I posted my comment before it was clarified that the dogs got off their owner's property and the cats were on their own property. The extra information was what I was looking to gain when I questioned the incident. Fully explained, it takes on a different tone.

But I will say that when I got Chester, his prey drive was off-the-hook towards cats. We have a lot of neighborhood roaming cats around here, owned not feral, but not contained. While I immediately starting working with Chester on his prey drive (to the point of being able to have him supervised and off-leash around the barn cats), I also talked to the neighbors and warned them that Chester was aggressive to cats. I said that I would not be responsible if he harmed a cat within my fenced yard- not a cat on the sidewalk or in their own yard, but fully within my property. I responsibly kept him leashed and controlled while walking him and he has never touched a cat off my property. My neighbors understood. They knew they had the option of keeping the cats as indoor cats and that is is against city law for cats to roam off their owner's property.

I really would never ever want Chester to harm a cat, and he's basically at the point where it is very unlikely he would, but a dog does have the right to run around in his own fenced yard also.
I'm now dealing with cat aggression/ prey drive in my foster. At this point, I am actually leashing him even within the fenced yard because I don't yet trust him not to jump the fence after a cat. I am doing my part to train him and control him safely.

Put two of my three dogs in that video with the rabbit, guinnea pig, and cat, they would eat the rabbit and guinnea pig, and if they did not know the cat, they would kill it.

My third dog might eat the rabbit and guinnea pig, and would lick the cat from head to toe.

My ACD's are high drive and have a high prey drive. And I have cats. They are fine with "their" cats but all interaction is supervised. If a cat happened in the yard while either of them were out, it would be a goner.

They will bite people as well. Under the right circumstances. Anyone that has an ACD and thinks it will not bite someone (or any dog for that matter) is kidding themselves. Many ACDs will bite quick. It is not that they are aggressive. They are not. Both are finished AKC champions. Merlin is a Grand Champion, earn his bronze achievement level, is nationally ranked, yadda yadda. He LOVES people. He has done meet the breed booths, done events at schools, Scout meetings, been in the public all over the place.
But he will BITE! quick! All it would take is to walk in my house with out me inviting you in, stick your hands in my vehicle, etc....Hard to explain but I tell people ACDs seldom tolorate what they perceive as rudeness.

It is not whether or not a dog will bite or not.... Because they will all bite under certain circumstances.

IT IS ALWAYS AND ONLY ABOUT HOW THE OWNER MANAGES THEIR DOGS.

Henryr10 said:

We have had some wonderful 'Pits' around here.
One escape artist used to get loose all the time and we'd round her up.
Sweet sweet dog.
Looked and acted just like Petey from 'Our Gang'
They have wonderful owners

Then we have had some horrible 'Pits'.
Two of them broke out of their kennel and mauled 3 cats to death.
......................................
And of course they have horrible owners.
Their 'Pits' were from the aggressive fighting lines.
Aggressively trained and by idiot owners.

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It's great your not biased. But you should still know what you are talking about.

You don't seem Pit Bull educated and you make contradictory statements.

First you mention a fighting bred dog (Petey) and in your statement imply that he had a good temperament. But in your next example of the Pits which killed the cats you say they are from "aggressive fighting lines" in a manner of negative connotation to being fighting bred.

This makes no sense. Owners (good vs bad) aside you specified "aggressive fighting lines". Either game bred dogs are ok dogs that can have wonderful temperaments like Petey supposedly had. A son of a 16 time winner (Black Jack) who was owned by one of the most well known dog fighters in history. Having owned the first UKC recorded pit Champion, achieved a record # of pit wins and champions in 1yr than any other breeder (more than some do in their lifetime), Black Jack was a famed dog as well as Dibo, these dogs are seen throughout APBT pedigree to this day. Yet a dog sired by such a dog bred for the fighting pit acts like this breed should act? Stable and kid safe?

Then these other 2 Pits are considered aggressively bred because they were bred for the same purpose? And that seems more of an assumption than anything that they were bred for fighting. Even if its true I'm not sure what it has to do with anything. Pits can have a high prey drive which means chasing and possibly killing small animals. This is regardless of how they are bred I've seen it in show bred, pull bred Pits. I've seen it in other breeds. So it has no relation to fighting line dogs specifically as my bullyson dog actually shared his food with cats! He's not the only one.

What you say is very questionable. These are fighting bred dogs with fighting behavior encouraged yet they escaped from a kennel! If what you were saying is true they wouldn't have been kenneled together without problems. They would have likely fought and one possibly kill the other. Not escape together to kill cats.

Henryr10 said:

The two dogs slipped the kennel and were across the street and several houses down when the cat incident took place.
The owner came out of her house and tried to get to the cats. Who were in their own front yard.
They then turned on her and barking , growling and snapping they penned her against her own car.
Luckily she wasn't bitten.

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You are not making sense.
Fighting dogs are not kenneled together. If what you were saying had any truth to it (in regards to their breeding and use) the cat owner wouldn't have had this happen because the dogs would have been too busy fighting each other in their kennel.

Redirected aggression like that is unacceptable, luckily this isn't common in Pits and it is most certainly not common in fighting bred dogs. And while some handlers might allow it most don't want to risk their safety by fighting such a dog.
I really think you are trying to sell us a load of poo.

These dogs are definitely NOT representative of the Breed.
The are the product of bad, but selected, breeding for aggression and fight training.
Dog fighting is still big here unfortunately. That's where they ended up I'm sure.

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The reaction to the cat owner isn't a good rep of this breed. Prey drive is in this breed. The owners obviously didn't properly contain or manage their dogs. Prey drive is only bad when the dog has the wrong owner. It is actually useful at times with the appropriate owner who works their dogs. It most certainly isn't a threat to other pets with the proper owner even it that owner doesn't have a real use for the drive.

What bloodlines were these dogs? Fight training lol right. These dogs were in a kennel together without fighting eachother, without causing life threatening injuries to eachother and escaped to go after prey together. Training of a pit dog involves pitting them against other dogs not putting them in a kennel to live together.This sounds like a case of an irresponsible pet owners Pits escaping to do harm.


What an aggressively bred fighting lines dog she is....

I'm not a big fan of the 'Prey Drive' defense. To me it's a kind of 'Dogs will be Dogs' thinking and which in turn leads to more bias.
"Oh our (insert breed name) was just chasing/mauling the cat because (insert breed) do that...."
"Oh he knocked your kid down when he was running because.....etc..."

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It's not a defense exactly. Of course a dog is going to behave in their natural manner...be dogs..Dogs will do whatever they want if allowed. It's up to the owner to train and socialize, teaching impulse control can be very beneficial as well. People shouldn't let their dogs do whatever he/she wants and make an excuse. That's not being a responsible owner.

megara said:

Personally I would never get a pitbull (or a mastiff, rottweiler, wolf/wolf mix, etc.). You see on the news all the time that the family pet, that has never shown aggression before, suddenly attacking/killing babies. Of course there are exceptions, but why take a chance? Especially if there is a child in the home?

This is a extreme example: I like bears. I don't think we should kill them all, but I would never have a pet bear because they are dangerous.

A lot of people defend pitbulls by saying, "the dog on the little rascals was a pitbull..."
Take a look at these two pictures:

They may both be pitbulls, but I think its pretty safe to say that they have changed a lot since then. And as far as "human-aggression" vs. "dog-aggression", whose to say one couldn't lead to the other? And besides, why would you want a dog that was very aggressive towards other dogs?

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So really you shouldn't own any dog especially around a baby. Because why take the chance? Breed of dog is irrelevant huskies, yorkies, a pom, a Doxie have killed babies. Labs have caused severe damage.
None of those breeds you mentioned are a bigger risk than any other breed. Wolves not included, you can't compare wolves or bears to domesticated animals. It's a different subject.

The fact that Pits attack or kill kids certainly proves that yes unfortunately there are exceptions. Pits are a stable breed of dog and typically highly tolerant and loving of children. Obviously some poorly bred, poorly trained or fluke exceptions exist. Does this mean we should fear all the other hundreds of thousands to millions out there?
I don't ever want to be mauled or killed by a dog but I'm far from worried about. I'm far more likely to die from a car accident or cancer. It's a little paranoid to worry about the family dogs turning on me.

If there is a child in the home a proper Pit is one of the best dogs you could have.

You've had a few bad experiences so now all are bad? Were these even with real Pits or Pits mixes and other breeds.

I've been around Pits since childhood and in turn raise my children with the breed. Now I should believe that 1 of my dogs is suddenly going to attack one of my kids without any warning and kill them? Right I've survived since childhood without ever being bitten and I don't believe stable dogs of any breed are going to kill my kids.


This is one of my dogs. Not a recent pic. She is now 10 has been raised around kids who are now baby-8yrs. Oh but you will say she is an exception. As is her grandma right? Who is pic below an excellent kid dog. I didn't own her but knew her til she died at nearly 15. She actually lived with me for a short period. She got to interact with my girl and up to her great great grandkids. She's an exception? Like my girl pictured (and my other dogs not pictured), my girls other ancestors (including those I grew up with), my girls progeny, all the other great Pits I've known. Right. When something is the majority it is the norm. When something is the minority its the exception. Like unstable Pits and those intentionally trained for HA.



The pics you posted are misleading. They are not both Pit Bulls. Petey is a pure bred real Pit Bull (which still exist today). They haven't changed much in 80yrs. The modern example you posted isn't a true example of a Pit Bull. Anyone who post something big and blue as a Pit Bull clearly doesn't know what a Pit Bull is. Apples to oranges. Not that it matters as just because physical type changes in a breed doesn't mean they are now bred for poor temperament.
Petey was a game bred dog yet people keep saying these fighting bred dogs are aggressive but using him as an example of a good Pit?

Misleading due to posting a Pit of pure lineage and a Pit of questionable heritage as a comparable example.
The 2nd reason this is misleading is you didn't post any other historical photos or same era Petey pics. Which would show that not all looked like Petey.


Peteys half brothers


Colby's Pinscher


Colby's Twister

Modern Pits....
I already posted my girl above who is a conformation champion and her grandma (who was a champion as well).

These are some others.....


Her great great grandpa (a champion)


Just one of my others I had. Yes she's hiking her leg.


The #2 topped ranked show dog for several years running. He's also the 3rd highest pointed Gr Ch in history.


The highest pointed Gr Ch in history and the #1 top ranked dog for several years. His status dropped when he missed a big portion of the season.

These dogs don't look anything like the dog you posted as a Pit imo. They are not pitterstaffs like the dog you put up. Nor do they have possibly other breeds added for size or bred specifically for color and size like the dog you posted.

As a Pit Bull owner myself, threads like this do not shock me anymore.

To the OP: When I first brought home Nubs, my Parents about went ape. It wasn't until I found out that my Fiancé was cheating on me and I needed a place to live or I'd be living in my car that they accepted me and Nubs into their house. That's when they got to know a Pit Bull and found what they were really like. I now own two and my parents love them to death. My mom is now constantly getting into fights with people who belt out nonsense about the breed. It takes time, just remember to take lots of obedience classes and work hard to make your pup the best dog ever. Most people meet my dogs and the say one of two things "No way can this be a Pit. He/She is too friendly" or "Wow, that is the friendliest dog I've met".

I'll just leave this photo of my Search and Rescue dog here:


Because you know she's so dangerous and nasty that she works very hard to track down her humans to bring them home safely.