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Discussion Starter #1
http://www.breedingbetterdogs.com/bracket.html

"Let the sire of the sire become the grandsire of the dam."

The link I posted is an article detailing Brackett's Formula..

What Im curious to hear is

a. if any of you know of any scientific research on the pros and cons detailed in the article..

and

b. I realize this may be asking a lot but id like to hear any anecdotes of real life experiences of using Brackett's Formula.
 

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I don't think there's been much scientific research done on it, but there's a LOT of folks that have used it very successfully. Read pedigrees and you'll see that it pops up fairly frequently.

Keep your fingers crossed for Rittie's litter, who fits this formula on paper, although it wasn't something I was intentionally trying for. Her sire is Gofer (CH ConTe Go For The Gold), who is himself a Sele (CH ConTe See Less Blue) son. The litter I have planned is sired by Mac (CH Con-Te Divine Simply The Best), and to be honest, while I like that he's a Sele son (Sele has produced a LOT of stuff I like), I was equally interested in his dam, Harley (CH Divine's Simply Out Of The Blue, who is CH ConTe State of Affairs x Divine Inspiration HIC; CH ConTe State of Affairs was also Sele's sire.)

This sounds like a VERY tight linebreeding from the above, but it's actually the convergence of a variety of lines, so it'll be interesting to see what we get. Rittie is herself the result of an outcross to the Clarion stuff, and the primary reason for doing a linebreeding with this litter was that it SHOULD give me some predictability and let me know what I already HAVE with her, genetically, that I cannot see. It works on paper, in that the pedigree repeats dogs that I like VERY much, and it also works in phenotype- the two dogs compliment each other's virtues and flaws. (Mac could use more rear, Rittie's is excellent; Mac has a beautiful head with nice planes and a good stop where Rittie's got a stop that's lower than I like.) Her next litter, assuming this one is good, will be an outcross in all likelihood, to bring in something normal-eyed, and I'll keep the best normal-eyed girl I can from that.

I am SO lucky to have access to both the excellent dogs that I've been entrusted with (Rittie really is something special), and also the advice that I've gotten from other collie people.

We'll see. :p
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I don't think there's been much scientific research done on it, but there's a LOT of folks that have used it very successfully. Read pedigrees and you'll see that it pops up fairly frequently.

Keep your fingers crossed for Rittie's litter, who fits this formula on paper, although it wasn't something I was intentionally trying for. Her sire is Gofer (CH ConTe Go For The Gold), who is himself a Sele (CH ConTe See Less Blue) son. The litter I have planned is sired by Mac (CH Con-Te Divine Simply The Best), and to be honest, while I like that he's a Sele son (Sele has produced a LOT of stuff I like), I was equally interested in his dam, Harley (CH Divine's Simply Out Of The Blue, who is CH ConTe State of Affairs x Divine Inspiration HIC; CH ConTe State of Affairs was also Sele's sire.)

This sounds like a VERY tight linebreeding from the above, but it's actually the convergence of a variety of lines, so it'll be interesting to see what we get. Rittie is herself the result of an outcross to the Clarion stuff, and the primary reason for doing a linebreeding with this litter was that it SHOULD give me some predictability and let me know what I already HAVE with her, genetically, that I cannot see. It works on paper, in that the pedigree repeats dogs that I like VERY much, and it also works in phenotype- the two dogs compliment each other's virtues and flaws. (Mac could use more rear, Rittie's is excellent; Mac has a beautiful head with nice planes and a good stop where Rittie's got a stop that's lower than I like.) Her next litter, assuming this one is good, will be an outcross in all likelihood, to bring in something normal-eyed, and I'll keep the best normal-eyed girl I can from that.

I am SO lucky to have access to both the excellent dogs that I've been entrusted with (Rittie really is something special), and also the advice that I've gotten from other collie people.

We'll see. :p
My plans are pretty far reaching and extensive as far as dogs are concerned.

I have been picking through peds since reading the above posted article and found some that seem to follow this formula and others that seem to be all over the place and still others that are ridiculously inbred(sister to brother kind of inbred)

So based on my current understanding, this litter of your Rittie has the potential to do two things

a. set such desirable traits as the nice head of the sire and the good rear of the dam

b. bring forward undesirable traits


I wonder what the mathematical probability of each outcome is. I have a buddy who is a mathematician...I think Im going to call him up and ask...I will let you know what he says...


I always wanted to be a scientist ever since I was very small. Since getting into the world of dogs my scientific interests have leaned more and more towards genetics.

I just got into school to take the basic classes I would need to get a degree in genetic studies. What I would like to eventually do once I obtain said degree is begin a breeding program that has two purposes.

a. produce well bred APBT because the breed is suffering at the hands of inferior breeding practices.

b. track and trace genetic traits using my breeding program as a basis for research.

This will be years in the future. But it never hurts to start gathering knowledge early. Thanks.
 

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All probabilities are 50/50, either a thing will happen or it won't. :p

Okay, more seriously? I don't know. With dog genetics, there are some traits that seem to be VERY plastic and fluid and you'll lose them if you don't CONSISTANTLY maintain them by only breeding dogs (or to dogs) who have those traits and a pedigree strong in them. (Good shoulder layback would be an example of one of those, or a correct Cardigan front- and I suspect the correct collie head is too.) There's not a gene for 'good front', but thousands of genes that affect each different little factor about it, so it's not something you can just turn on or off. If you've got a dog who is straight in the shoulder, breeding to a dog with a correct shoulder is more important than finding one with picture perfect pasterns (also part of the overall front assembly).

CEA, as frustrating as it is (the sheer lack of numbers in CEA clear dogs is annoying), is a simple recessive. My goal right now is to get it OUT of my dogs without moving backwards in other health issues, temperament, or head type. To decide which direction to go with a CEA clear stud dog (because there's not a dog I absolutely LOVE for Rittie that's a clear and obvious choice- thought I'd made up my mind and then went meh once I started looking into the pedigree with more depth.)
 
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