[Prince_Gq]

Can someone explain to me why my blue Merle puppy is mostly white and his Merle patches are in certain spots on his body and he doesn’t look like the other blue Merles .. he’s absolutely stunning to me 😇 one of his eyes are blue you just can’t see them

 

[Prince_Gq]

He’s and Australian mixed with a poodle he’s 8weeks old

 

[LeoRose]

The distribution of color depends on several factors, as the genes for merle and markings can come in so many different pairings.

If the Poodle parent was a part-color, or carried for parti-color, then that could account for it.

If both parents were merle ("merle Poodles" have non-Poodle ancestors somewhere, since merle isn't naturally in the breed) then it's possible that your pup is what's called a double merle, meaning they are M/M, as opposed to M/m, for the gene that causes merle. Double merle dogs frequently have some degree of vision and/or hearing impairment, ranging from mild to completely deaf and/or blind. Merle dogs that aren't double merle, but have a lot of white, can also have the same issues.

 

[Deacon.dog]

Looks like a double merle, or a parti merle.

your dog (whether or not its double merle) will probably have pigment associated deafness.

 

[storyist]

If your guy (who's very cute by the way) has one brown eye, I'd guess that's a good sign for vision, but I'd talk to a vet. A new puppy should go for a vet checkup right away under any circumstances anyway, and how hard can it be to do some basic tests with the puppy by himself to get an idea how things are?

Before letting posts here depress you to the depths, know that an afflicted puppy can have a good life and be a good companion with some extra effort from the owner. Read: https://m.facebook.com/Kellerthedm/photos/o.104785219632428/1121386187938972/?type=3

If after thinking it over, you don't want to take a chance, at 8 weeks, surely you can give him back to the breeder. I know someone who not long ago adopted a deaf white boxer puppy. She's training with hand signals and looking into a collar that vibrates as a way to call for attention.

 

[Prince_Gq]

Oh okay thanks , his mom is pure white and one of his eyes brown and he can Hear and he’s not blind ..his father is a Black tri .

 

[DaySleepers]

Are neither of his parents merle, then? Because if that's the case, he isn't merle either.

 

[Prince_Gq]

Are neither of his parents merle, then? Because if that's the case, he isn't merle either.

I don’t know about the father is a black tri hes the only one with Merle coat and blue eye .. all the rest of them got brown eyes . Maybe his grandfather or grandmother was a Merle and there for passed the gene who knows .. I’m going to the vet so they can look at him ..

 

[DaySleepers]

Merle is a dominant gene, so one parent has to be merle for him to be merle. Was the white mom a poodle or a mix? Did dad have a lot of white? Do you have pictures of the parents?

 

[Prince_Gq]

Merle is a dominant gene, so one parent has to be merle for him to be merle. Was the white mom a poodle or a mix? Did dad have a lot of white? Do you have pictures of the parents?

Here is mom(Poodle) and dad(Australian Shepherd)

 

[DaySleepers]

Okay, so here's what I'm thinking:

Possibility 1: A second (merle) male got to mom and your puppy has a different dad than the rest of the litter.

Possibility 2: Your puppy isn't actually merle, but some kind of dilute blue. It's very difficult to tell because his colored patches are so small, but I don't see obvious splotches of dark and light color the way you'd expect with a merle. Doesn't mean he isn't one, but I also can't conclusively say he is from these photos.

Possibility 3: Black tri dad is a cryptic merle, meaning he IS merle, but his color genetics just so happen to express in a way that makes it really hard to tell, visually. Thing is, this is pretty darn rare, and if he's merle then statistically half the litter should be as well. Obviously statistics just tells you the most likely scenario, not all the possible outcomes, but it'd still be unusual

Whatever his genetics, he is definitely NOT a double merle - those dogs have a very distinctive 'off' look with pink skin around their eyes and nose/mouth (not always, but often), so I wouldn't worry about color related health issues at all.

There are some dog color genetics groups on Facebook that might be more knowledgeable in what's going on here, particularly regarding the scenario where he's not actually merle. But the only way to know for sure what his genetics are doing is to get a DNA test, either through a vet or a company like Embark - they're most well known for their breed tests, but their full kit also looks at a ton of genetics related to health, coat, color and the like.

 

[LeoRose]

Yeah, merle is dominant, meaning that an M/n dog will be merle, while an m/m dog won't be. An M/m dog can produce both merle and non-merle puppies, while a double merle M/M dog can only produce merles. I've heard discussion in a dog breeding group about there being another gene that isn't on the M locus that can produce merle. It's really rare, though.

 

[Prince_Gq]

Here’s better pictures of the Merle patches !! The darker spots are dark black .. his light grey is kinda brownish ..

 

[DaySleepers]

Ah, thank you! That's more obviously merle. So my second theory is out. A second sire is still more likely than dad being a cryptic merle, but it's going to be impossible to be sure without DNA testing. Or the other gene LeoRose mentioned, but I've never heard of it before and it sounds even rarer than cryptic merle, so the likelihood of that being involved here seems really slim.

 

[DaySleepers]

Correction: a friend of mine who spends a lot more time around herding breeds says cryptic merle is relatively more common in Aussies, so it's not as unlikely as I originally thought!

 

[Prince_Gq]

Ah, thank you! That's more obviously merle. So my second theory is out. A second sire is still more likely than dad being a cryptic merle, but it's going to be impossible to be sure without DNA testing. Or the other gene LeoRose mentioned, but I've never heard of it before and it sounds even rarer than cryptic merle, so the likelihood of that being involved here seems really slim.

I talked to the breeder she said the father is a single Merle lol 😂 which kinda makes since .. but that’s still false advertising that other male to be the father

 

[DaySleepers]

Was she saying that the black tri dog is a single merle (genetically M/m)? Because he'd just be cryptic then, where his other coat color and pattern genetics hide the merle patches. If she's saying there's another male who's visibly merle colored, then yeah, that's not great practice.

 

[Prince_Gq]

Was she saying that the black tri dog is a single merle (genetically M/m)? Because he'd just be cryptic then, where his other coat color and pattern genetics hide the merle patches. If she's saying there's another male who's visibly merle colored, then yeah, that's not great practice.

I’m not sure but the only father she showed me was black brown and white so I guess she’s saying he’s a single Merle which turns out like you said cryptic male

 

[DaySleepers]

Yeah, I was under the impression that cryptic merles were quite rare, which might still be true if you look at all dog breeds (correct me if I'm wrong, if anyone knows!) who can possibly be merle, but I guess it happens more in Aussies, so I bet she's tested dad's color genetics and he's cryptic. That explains it! I learned something today too. He just has other genes that cause lots of white patterning, and if there's a place on the coat where both merle and white genes are activated, white wins out (well, most white, I think? There's different genes that can produce white on dogs... genetics is COMPLICATED, but super cool!).

 

[Prince_Gq]

Yeah, I was under the impression that cryptic merles were quite rare, which might still be true if you look at all dog breeds (correct me if I'm wrong, if anyone knows!) who can possibly be merle, but I guess it happens more in Aussies, so I bet she's tested dad's color genetics and he's cryptic. That explains it! I learned something today too. He just has other genes that cause lots of white patterning, and if there's a place on the coat where both merle and white genes are activated, white wins out (well, most white, I think? There's different genes that can produce white on dogs... genetics is COMPLICATED, but super cool!).

They are indeed!!