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Earlier this week, over 200 dogs were removed from a farm a few miles from the American border. 60 dogs were surrendered voluntarily; the other ~140 living and ~5 deceased dogs were seized.

The woman who owned the farm has done the same thing in other areas of the country at least twice before.

Warning: Some of the images in the video clip and link below are graphic.
http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=540592
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/april-dawn-irving-accused-alberta-dog-hoarder-has-history-of-animal-neglect-1.2936432
 

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Wow.. they are still allowed to have up to 6 dogs! Why on earth should they be allowed to have any at this point?
I took that to mean that the local law reads that people are only allowed to have 6 dogs and that they were in violation of that. Hopefully that is right and they are not keeping any dogs at all. I can't even imagine. The scary part is that this horrid woman is petitioning to get ALL of her "property" back. I hope that doesn't happen. Every one of these cases make me sick and what is the worst is knowing that for each dog saved there are hundreds more still out there suffering. I know hording is a mental illness but my mind won't let me grasp the concept of having hundreds of dogs tethered out without shelter and not feeding them or caring for them. That said, I tend to be an idealist and I don't like to see any dogs living chained out or even kenneled outside without daily access to their family.
 

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I was watching that TV series on Hoarding one time and they seized a lot of dogs from one woman. She was still allowed to have six dogs and there was certainly no guarantee they would be looked after any better than all the rest. Really surprised me that she could continue to have dogs after the seizure.
 

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Earlier this week, over 200 dogs were removed from a farm a few miles from the American border. 60 dogs were surrendered voluntarily; the other ~140 living and ~5 deceased dogs were seized.

The woman who owned the farm has done the same thing in other areas of the country at least twice before.

Warning: Some of the images in the video clip and link below are graphic.
http://calgary.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=540592
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/april-dawn-irving-accused-alberta-dog-hoarder-has-history-of-animal-neglect-1.2936432
REALLY?!?! 2 other times and she still hasn't learned her lesson? how many dogs have to suffer?!?!? seriously?

ETA: the black and tan dog in the beginning looks like Jake :(
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I took that to mean that the local law reads that people are only allowed to have 6 dogs and that they were in violation of that. Hopefully that is right and they are not keeping any dogs at all. I can't even imagine. The scary part is that this horrid woman is petitioning to get ALL of her "property" back.
Local law allows for only 6 dogs.... but to be honest, with multiple previous charges and seizures, I don't think she personally should be allowed any :s
 

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I fear that the local humane society in my town is doing the same thing. I believe there are 300 dogs there. I have been to volunteer (one time about a month ago -- my husband and I helped to put up a plastic barrier to protect against freezing winds because some dogs had frozen to death) so I have seen up close what the conditions are and they are abominable. The three women who run the place I believe are hoarding dogs and are not running it like a proper humane society. I have heard from others that families who have attempted to adopt from them have been turned down for silly reasons. Food is mostly donated from out of the country so people who don't really know the story, and all the photos on FB are very up close so you don't see the place. The ONLY way to find out WHERE the shelter is is to call one of the 3 women who runs it, they do not publish the location anywhere. I searched and searched because we wanted to volunteer. The only way they would reveal to us where they were was when we said we were already on the road coming to volunteer, and only on the phone, not in writing. Of course now I know where it is but it is a place you would never ever find unless told as there are no street names over there. I was horrified honestly with the conditions of these dogs. They are all outdoors, the "roof" is very flimsy and there are no walls, just chicken wire. The dogs I saw (because of putting up the plastic around the outside) were, from what my groomer told me, the "good looking" ones who they keep around the perimeter. She said if you go inside they are much worse. Some of it could be vicious gossip but I really felt uneasy. Unfortunately they are the ONLY "humane society" in the entire "state" (equivalent in Greece) and they have the goodwill of thousands who only see their FB posts and have never been there. Realistically the only solution for 99% of those dogs is to stay where they are or PTS, as there are no homes for dogs in that state. Many have been there for many years. While I do not like having the strays on the streets (for the safety of everyone) I actually believe that stray street dogs in my city have BETTER LIVES than the shelter dogs.
 

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Where does Irving get all these poor dogs from in the first place?
Horrible, horrible woman.
Sadly, it doesn't take long before 3-4 dogs becomes 140, if they're allowed to breed freely :/.

Hoarding is a mental illness; I hope she's getting the proper treatment. Simply taking the dogs away and/or assessing some kind of punishment won't change her underlying pathology, and the second anyone takes their eyes off her, she'll have more dogs. She needs actual treatment to help change that.
 

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at the very least, an animal hoarding "convict" should be banned from ever owning animals again.
This has actually been shown to have a bad effect on their treatment (also nearly impossible to enforce). It's better to let them have a few animals, make sure they're spayed/neutered, and have someone pop in now and then to make sure they're well-cared-for. Hoarders truly love their animals; they just get overwhelmed by too many and then it becomes impossible to care for all of them properly.

Of course it takes money and resources to provide proper mental health care/treatment so that's not gonna happen.
 

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This has actually been shown to have a bad effect on their treatment (also nearly impossible to enforce). It's better to let them have a few animals, make sure they're spayed/neutered, and have someone pop in now and then to make sure they're well-cared-for. Hoarders truly love their animals; they just get overwhelmed by too many and then it becomes impossible to care for all of them properly. Of course it takes money to provide proper mental health care/treatment so that's not gonna happen.
I'm not going to argue with that but I'd be more concerned about the actual welfare of the animals they do own. I don't see how it's harder to enforce "0" than "6" but I also haven't done any serious thinking or research on the topic!
 

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Because if you're trying to enforce that they have zero pets, they will hide their pets from the people assigned to check up on them, be less likely to take those pets to the vet (in case the vet snitches), and to take them away, you'd have to start legal proceedings which take forever.

If they're allowed to have some pets, they're more likely to be open with the information, take those pets to the vet, and even if help is needed to feed and spay/neuter that pet, that's cheaper than legal proceedings to take them away.

I guess, think of it this way---you (general you) have a dog you love very much. He brings you comfort. You know he isn't exactly pampered, but you don't really see anything very wrong with his life (maybe due to mental illness, ASD, how you were raised, whatever)(ASDs are a major factor in hoarding). Somebody barges in and says "your dog is being horribly neglected! We're taking him away from you!". How are you going to feel about those people? How likely are you to cooperate with them?

Now, if someone came in and said "we have concerns about your dog's health, and we'd like to help you to make his life, and your life, better" and they actually help you with that, you're going to feel a lot more like cooperating with them.

Basically, with any hoarder (animals, books, whatever they hoard), if you barge in and clean them out, they're going to replace their hoard pretty quickly and be terribly resentful. If you actually try to help them, it works a lot better.
 

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I hear you Willowy, I really do. But a hoarder collects objects. An animal hoarder collects sentient beings. It's a totally different story. (Even if it IS the same thing from a psychological standpoint.) I guess I just don't see how an animal hoarder wouldn't hide his 50 dogs and show his "legal six". And furthermore, we're talking about people who clearly are incapable of humane and proper treatment of animals. Unless they're given SERIOUS and INTENSIVE counseling and lessons and ongoing support I really dont' see how it's not animal cruelty to allow an animal to run the risk of belonging to them. I am all for supporting people suffering from mental illness and psychological distress, but I don't see how it's fair to the dog/cat/etc in that situation. It's a risk I don't think they should have to run. Why do rescues and breeders interview potential owners? Because it matters. Would any reasonable rescue or breeder allow a dog to go into a situation like that? These animals need some advocacy.
 

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in case anyone is interested in the case I was talking about in my town (the humane society), this article from 2 days ago has some photos. according to the article they have 430 dogs there. if you scroll to the bottom you can see all the photos. this is actually how it looked when we went, except it didn't have the flooding. that's new. HOW IS THIS considered a humane society??? http://www.zoosos.gr/article/6507/ekklese-gia-oikodomika-ulika-sto-kataphugio-tes-philozoikes-komotenes-pou-katastrapheke
 

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I hear you Willowy, I really do. But a hoarder collects objects. An animal hoarder collects sentient beings. It's a totally different story. (Even if it IS the same thing from a psychological standpoint.) I guess I just don't see how an animal hoarder wouldn't hide his 50 dogs and show his "legal six". And furthermore, we're talking about people who clearly are incapable of humane and proper treatment of animals. Unless they're given SERIOUS and INTENSIVE counseling and lessons and ongoing support I really dont' see how it's not animal cruelty to allow an animal to run the risk of belonging to them. I am all for supporting people suffering from mental illness and psychological distress, but I don't see how it's fair to the dog/cat/etc in that situation. It's a risk I don't think they should have to run. Why do rescues and breeders interview potential owners? Because it matters. Would any reasonable rescue or breeder allow a dog to go into a situation like that? These animals need some advocacy.
Yeah. I am very, very pro helping people with mental illness, but when children and dogs get involved, I'm more concerned with helping them. I know a guy whose mother ran off literally right after giving birth to him, leaving him with a schizophrenic father. Social workers moved mountains to support his father in keeping him, directly leading to the event which left this guy horrifically physically and emotionally scarred. I truly empathize and care about the welfare of the mentally ill, but I care about dogs not being starved and children not being abused just that much more.
 

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I hope nothing I said implied I think the animals should be allowed to stay where they're neglected. But it's been observed that for animal hoarders, treatment that includes keeping some pets, under supervision, is more effective than trying to prevent them from having pets at all. Short of in-patient treatment at a mental hospital or jail, there is no way to control what anybody does; to fix something like this you have to get to the root of the problem. Effective treatment means less chance that it'll happen again. Which is certainly advocating for animals.

I fail to see how treating this woman like a criminal has had any beneficial effect, seeing as how this is the third time she's been punished for it :/. Of course, I have no idea what kinds of treatments she may or may not have received, but whatever has happened in the past, it's clear it's not working.

Also, this:
we're talking about people who clearly are incapable of humane and proper treatment of animals
is not necessarily true. Some hoarders, when they have a reasonable number of pets, take very good care of them. But nobody can properly care for 140 dogs alone. And for some people, it's not too hard to get overwhelmed like that.
 

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I dont know about canadian laws, only the ones here where I live (so sorry if this info isnt right) but here, as long as the dog has adequate food, water and shelter from the elements, it is considered "cared for" which sucks. Because for me, "cared for" means a lot more than just the basics.

But yeah, for the sake of the animals she had and the ones she will try to get, stipulations need to be put on her, and the people assigned to "check up" on her have ways of knowing how many dogs she has, through neighbors (who are probably the ones who alerted the authorities in the first place) and maybe even family.
 

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Local law allows for only 6 dogs.... but to be honest, with multiple previous charges and seizures, I don't think she personally should be allowed any :s
Agree 100%
 

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I fear that the local humane society in my town is doing the same thing. I believe there are 300 dogs there...
It is possible your rescue is operated by hoarders but It could also be a victim of society. If the stray dog population is out of control I can see how a underfunded "no kill" shelter could get overwhelmed and do more harm then good. Unfortunately in most places finding every dog a good one is not achievable and living at even the best rescue kennel is going to be a pretty poor quality of life for a dog. A shelter can actually make things worse by putting dogs in bad homes. Idiots who can't care for a dog and thus have a bad experience adopting from a shelter can discourage the more responsible people around them from adopting. Also a shelter that can't afford to spay and neuter animals will need to be very certain the new owners will or the shelter will just have even more animals to deal with later
 
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