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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
After the hassle we went throug adopting our boy I'm not going through a rescue any time soon. Long story not getting into so please no "you should go to a rescue" comments. We want a purebred as our next dog.

We were looking at getting a Newfie in a few years (waiting for Copper to grow up and be neutered). Then we heavily decided not to in the end. We both agreed it would be unfair for such a big dog to be stuck in a 2nd floor apartment. We have no yard to speak of but to parks within easy walking distance (less then a block away) where we can turn them loose. We also are going to take said pup to an obedience trainer.

Now I understand a lot of this list has to do with training but I'm looking for breeds that are known to be (enter phrase here).

Here's are list:
~ a breed that's know to be easy in the house training department
~ breed that's not known to be a barker
~ good with kids (trust me we live in an area with lots of little ones so he/she will be well socialized)
~ known to be good with other dogs (again will be well socialized)
~ nothing under 15lbs
~ easy to train
- don't need an Einstein (like a collie) dog
~ hair and drool don't scare us
~ no prey drive (we've got kitties and ratties, I also know it's part of training)
~ we go for long walks every Sunday (like 4miles since we both have off) so need a dog with energy but not a super high amount of it. We also go on many daily walks.
- we want a dog who has the energy to go but can be content on a couch as well when not outsider



Wanted to edit as I forgot to add this: sadly we are not allowed boxers bulldogs pit bulls Doberman akitas rottweilers or shepherds due to landlords insurance
 

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I had written a big long speech, then proceeded to hit post reply and lost it all. So I'll make this subtle. LOL

I had a boxer, its everything you are looking for and more. I had an unfenced yard, she would lay outside all day long, never leave my property. She didn't have a mean bone in her body. Perfect dog. Wish she was still with us.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I had written a big long speech, then proceeded to hit post reply and lost it all. So I'll make this subtle. LOL

I had a boxer, its everything you are looking for and more. I had an unfenced yard, she would lay outside all day long, never leave my property. She didn't have a mean bone in her body. Perfect dog. Wish she was still with us.
If it wasn't for our landlords insurance I'd have a boxer any day. I grew up with them and love them to bits
 

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I think a collie (Lassie collie, not border collie) would fit your bill perfectly, except maybe for the barking. They're great people, kid, other pet dogs. If you're not up for the long fur, they come in a smooth coat variety. They do well in apartments as long as they're with their family and they get some exercise. Overall, they're one of the mellowist breeds in the herding group.
 

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Take a look at the Eurasier! I'm absolutely and completely biased (they're what I consider "my breed") but they're GREAT dogs. Typically they're not big barkers, don't usually have any prey drive... I'd say they're more of a "medium" shedder. Their undercoat comes out in little clumps or puffs for the most part, which is pretty easy to deal with. It's WAY better than our Newfoundland at any rate, haha. But they're all around solid, loyal, good dogs.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Take a look at the Eurasier! I'm absolutely and completely biased (they're what I consider "my breed") but they're GREAT dogs. Typically they're not big barkers, don't usually have any prey drive... I'd say they're more of a "medium" shedder. Their undercoat comes out in little clumps or puffs for the most part, which is pretty easy to deal with. It's WAY better than our Newfoundland at any rate, haha. But they're all around solid, loyal, good dogs.
Never heard of them. How large do the tend to get?

Hair doesn't scare me I grew up with a Saint Bernard mix then lived with a poodle mix and a shitzu
 

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Never heard of them. How large do the tend to get?

Hair doesn't scare me I grew up with a Saint Bernard mix then lived with a poodle mix and a shitzu
I think they're considered a medium sized breed? Uhhh... maybe large. Having giant breeds really messes up my size perceptions! Males are typically about 50-70 lbs and females are 40-60 lbs. They're still fairly uncommon in the US, but the community is pretty close and the breed club (United States Eurasier Club) has a bunch of info and pictures on the website.
 

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We both agreed it would be unfair for such a big dog to be stuck in a 2nd floor apartment.
The physical size of the dog doesn't really matter for apartment living, to be very honest. For example, I think a Newf would be much better suited to an apartment than a Boxer or a Lab, both of which are known to be high energy. Every dog needs exercise, and the size of their living space if they're properly exercised is pretty unimportant (for the most part).

~ a breed that's know to be easy in the house training department
This is very much an individual thing and is not breed dependent. Most puppies aren't going to be reliable with potty training until around six months of age. This is true for dogs from the size of Chihuahuas to dogs the size of Great Danes. For example, my Great Dane puppy had to go outside every 20 minutes while active until he was almost six months of age. Other people's Danes are much easier than that. If you're potty training in a second floor apartment, expect it to be a challenge no matter what breed you choose.

~ good with kids (trust me we live in an area with lots of little ones so he/she will be well socialized)
A puppy of any breed is going to be mouthy for several months, at least. No puppies are automatically good with kids. It takes time, patience and training to teach bite inhibition.

~ we go for long walks every Sunday (like 4miles since we both have off) so need a dog with energy but not a super high amount of it. We also go on many daily walks.
No puppy is going to be able to walk 4 miles right off the bat. Forced repeated exercise isn't recommended for puppies of any size. By "forced repeated exercise" I mean walking or jogging at the same pace for an extended period of time. Puppies need to free exercise and move at their own pace (preferably on a softer surface like grass) until their growth plates are fully closed.

--------

Some generalized comments:

It honestly sounds like you want an adult dog. "Easy to potty train", "good with kids", "we walk 4 miles on the weekends"... Those are all adult dog qualities, and you're going to have to be patient and wait a while for a puppy to mature before it's capable of doing any of those things.

I do think a giant breed like a Newf or Bernese Mountain Dog fits your criteria pretty well. That being said, expect to pay $1,500-$2,500 for a well bred puppy of either of those breeds. It's very important to buy from a breeder who does all of the health testing for these breeds, and if you don't, you're setting yourself up for an increased risk of a dog who doesn't live past the age of 7.

Another thing to consider is the stairs in your apartment. A few different studies have shown that going up and down flights of stairs increases a puppy's risk of hip dysplasia significantly. It would be highly advisable to carry your puppy in and out until he/she is at least 4-5 months of age. With a giant breed, this means you'll be lugging a 50-60 lb puppy outside in your arms. Are you capable of doing that?

And the big thing I always like to warn people about with giants is finances. Everything is more expensive with a giant breed. My Dane puppy ate 10 cups of food a day while he was growing, which resulted in my food bills being $160 a month. You don't want to alter a giant breed before growth plate closure (meaning you'll have to deal with at least one heat in a female), which increases the cost of their s/n significantly because anesthesia is based on weight. You're likely going to pay $500-$1,000 for a s/n for a giant breed dog depending on prices in your area. These breeds are also prone to bloat, and if your dog bloats with torsion, surgery will be required to save your dog's life. A GDV surgery can run anywhere from $3,500-$5,000, money that you'll need to come up with at the drop of a hat.

Due to these issues, I have my dogs insured, which costs $65 per dog per month. I imagine the price would be slightly less for slightly less expensive breeds like Newfs or Berners.

If you can accommodate these things, then either of those breeds fits all of your criteria pretty much perfectly.
 

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Oh, yeah. I agree with Hiraeth on having Newfs in apartments. It's not really a big deal. A new PUPPY maybe, but puppies of any breed are going to need a lot of trips outside. Now that Annabel's older, she'll have a good romp in the backyard or a long walk and then curl up on the couch or her bed and snooze while my husband writes most of the day.

And Newfs really REALLY are amazing dogs. "Sweetness of temperament is the hallmark of the breed." BUT (and this is really super duper important, I cannot stress how important) you HAVE to find a good reputable breeder. There are plenty of unscrupulous breeders out there now who are breeding for "rare" colors and to make a buck and are NOT giving one hoot about that "sweetness of temperament". A reputable, ethical breeder is the way to go, for health as well as temperament, which is very very important in this larger dogs.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
We both agreed it would be unfair for such a big dog to be stuck in a 2nd floor apartment.
The physical size of the dog doesn't really matter for apartment living, to be very honest. For example, I think a Newf would be much better suited to an apartment than a Boxer or a Lab, both of which are known to be high energy. Every dog needs exercise, and the size of their living space if they're properly exercised is pretty unimportant (for the most part).

~ a breed that's know to be easy in the house training department
This is very much an individual thing and is not breed dependent. Most puppies aren't going to be reliable with potty training until around six months of age. This is true for dogs from the size of Chihuahuas to dogs the size of Great Danes. For example, my Great Dane puppy had to go outside every 20 minutes while active until he was almost six months of age. Other people's Danes are much easier than that. If you're potty training in a second floor apartment, expect it to be a challenge no matter what breed you choose.

~ good with kids (trust me we live in an area with lots of little ones so he/she will be well socialized)
A puppy of any breed is going to be mouthy for several months, at least. No puppies are automatically good with kids. It takes time, patience and training to teach bite inhibition.

~ we go for long walks every Sunday (like 4miles since we both have off) so need a dog with energy but not a super high amount of it. We also go on many daily walks.
No puppy is going to be able to walk 4 miles right off the bat. Forced repeated exercise isn't recommended for puppies of any size. By "forced repeated exercise" I mean walking or jogging at the same pace for an extended period of time. Puppies need to free exercise and move at their own pace (preferably on a softer surface like grass) until their growth plates are fully closed.

--------

Some generalized comments:

It honestly sounds like you want an adult dog. "Easy to potty train", "good with kids", "we walk 4 miles on the weekends"... Those are all adult dog qualities, and you're going to have to be patient and wait a while for a puppy to mature before it's capable of doing any of those things.

I do think a giant breed like a Newf or Bernese Mountain Dog fits your criteria pretty well. That being said, expect to pay $1,500-$2,500 for a well bred puppy of either of those breeds. It's very important to buy from a breeder who does all of the health testing for these breeds, and if you don't, you're setting yourself up for an increased risk of a dog who doesn't live past the age of 7.

Another thing to consider is the stairs in your apartment. A few different studies have shown that going up and down flights of stairs increases a puppy's risk of hip dysplasia significantly. It would be highly advisable to carry your puppy in and out until he/she is at least 4-5 months of age. With a giant breed, this means you'll be lugging a 50-60 lb puppy outside in your arms. Are you capable of doing that?

And the big thing I always like to warn people about with giants is finances. Everything is more expensive with a giant breed. My Dane puppy ate 10 cups of food a day while he was growing, which resulted in my food bills being $160 a month. You don't want to alter a giant breed before growth plate closure (meaning you'll have to deal with at least one heat in a female), which increases the cost of their s/n significantly because anesthesia is based on weight. You're likely going to pay $500-$1,000 for a s/n for a giant breed dog depending on prices in your area. These breeds are also prone to bloat, and if your dog bloats with torsion, surgery will be required to save your dog's life. A GDV surgery can run anywhere from $3,500-$5,000, money that you'll need to come up with at the drop of a hat.

Due to these issues, I have my dogs insured, which costs $65 per dog per month. I imagine the price would be slightly less for slightly less expensive breeds like Newfs or Berners.

If you can accommodate these things, then either of those breeds fits all of your criteria pretty much perfectly.
We believe in having insurance on our pets as well but I've also made a pet account for emergencies. We feed higher quality kibble (Acana) although it's a multi stage food so I'm not sure if that'll be good for a giant. Our plane is to spay/neuter at 1 (our vet doesn't like spaying/neutering dogs til at minimum 12 months unless it's critcal). Easy to potty train I should've worded better in all honesty. I know some breeds (mostly toys it seems) are next to impossible to fully house train, friend of ours has a 8 year old Chihuahua that they are still trying to house train. Our puppy currently will go on these long walks with us but we bring a wagon. He'll walk for some then go in the wagon then get out and go some more, so if we wind up with a giant we can just get a bigger wagon so the pup doesn't walk the full distance. I know dogs are born being fantastic but I know certain breeds are know for beinrg great with kids as adults, our pup is 5 months and is mouthy as heck (though with consistency is getting better). The one park we have does have a grassy fenced area where we can turn a pup loose safely to run. Being on the second floor we have 21 -22 (I forget) steps to go up and down. It won't be easy to carry the pup down but we can do it.

No one has ever brought up a Bernese, are they similar to newfies? I haven't looked into them so if you can tell me what they're like please tell me :)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Oh, yeah. I agree with Hiraeth on having Newfs in apartments. It's not really a big deal. A new PUPPY maybe, but puppies of any breed are going to need a lot of trips outside. Now that Annabel's older, she'll have a good romp in the backyard or a long walk and then curl up on the couch or her bed and snooze while my husband writes most of the day.

And Newfs really REALLY are amazing dogs. "Sweetness of temperament is the hallmark of the breed." BUT (and this is really super duper important, I cannot stress how important) you HAVE to find a good reputable breeder. There are plenty of unscrupulous breeders out there now who are breeding for "rare" colors and to make a buck and are NOT giving one hoot about that "sweetness of temperament". A reputable, ethical breeder is the way to go, for health as well as temperament, which is very very important in this larger dogs.
Seeing as I'm still digging into dog breeds what would be some "rare colors" to watch for?
I know newfies come in landseer, black and chocolate. Though are landseers (well bred) just black/white or is brown/white ok?


I love newfies from what I have read but those stairs and there poor joints is my worry
 

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No one has ever brought up a Bernese, are they similar to newfies? I haven't looked into them so if you can tell me what they're like please tell me :)
Berners are pretty similar to Newfs. Friendly, family oriented, biddable but not super sharp, and just overall really wonderful and stable dogs. Of course, all of that relies upon them being well bred. They were originally used to pull carts, so a well bred Berner should have the stamina for hiking, but should also be okay with lazing about.

I think Berners are less healthy in general than Newfs. There are a bunch of cancers that run in their lines. I think bloat is more common in Berners, too. It's definitely highly important to find a breeder who health tests in both breeds.
 

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Seeing as I'm still digging into dog breeds what would be some "rare colors" to watch for?
I know newfies come in landseer, black and chocolate. Though are landseers (well bred) just black/white or is brown/white ok?


I love newfies from what I have read but those stairs and there poor joints is my worry
In-standard Newfie colors vary by what country you're in, actually. The Canadian standard only recognizes black and Landseer (black and white). Europe recognizes Black, Landseer, and brown. And in the US the recognized colors are black, Landseer, brown, and grey. (I'm pretty sure that's all correct, it's been a while and I can't find my chart)

*Also do note that in Europe there is actually a BREED called the ECT Landseer and they're separate from Newfoundlands.

Typically the "rare" colors people try to get more money for are things like "champagne"/cream, cream and white, brown and white, and grey and white. You can breed those colors and the dogs are purebred BUT the issue is that a breeder who is breeding for colors that aren't part of the standard might not be breeding for other parts of the standard (like sweetness of temperament). Plus they tend to try and charge even more money because the colors are "rare" and people not in the breed don't realize why they're rare.

To be perfectly honest with you, the off colors DO sometimes happen from good breeders. Picking a good breeder can seem really difficult and frustrating. The Newfoundland Club of America is a great place to start. Or going to dog shows and meeting Newfie people. Health testing for the parents is very important in this breed. It's not a guarantee that you'll avoid problems like hip dysplasia or bloat, but getting a puppy with good genetics is a good start. Also, with Newfs I recommend only looking at breeders who test the puppies at 10 weeks old for SAS (a devastating heart condition) by an actual vet cardiologist, not just a vet.
 

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Golden Retriever or Labardor Retriever not of hunting or field lines. Be sure to find a reputable breeder. You might also search breeders to find a dog that has been retired from show and/or breeding.

Puppies under 14 months should not be hiking 4 miles as noted above.
 

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Golden Retriever or Labardor Retriever not of hunting or field lines. Be sure to find a reputable breeder. You might also search breeders to find a dog that has been retired from show and/or breeding.

Puppies under 14 months should not be hiking 4 miles as noted above.
I did mention above that our current pup doesn't walk the entire distance. It's not even truly hiking (for me and my bad knees it is) it's just a straight path with a few hills. He only walks a short distance then he goes in a wagon we bring along
 
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