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Discussion Starter #1
that is it getting harder to find "standard" size Australian Shepherd pups? Most of the breeders around my area seem to be breeding "mini and/or teacup" Aussies. They are selling these puppies as registered dogs but I don't see them in AKC shows and one breeder had pictures of their dogs on the website. The only thing Aussie about those dogs was the body shape. The legs were much finer boned and the head was "wrong"...the nose was long and slender with an almost terrier look to the whole head in general. Actually, after looking at a couple of different breeds, everyone seems to be breeding for a size other than what nature designed for these dogs. I worry about health problems everytime people start messing around in the animal gene pool. It has been many years since I looked for a puppy (they all were breed specific sizes) so I guess things have changed alot. I'll keep hunting for a standard size Aussie...I know they must be out there somewhere close by.

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PS

I am not trying to offend anyone by asking this or start any problems. I just really love the standard size Aussie just as they are and I am concerned that they are going to become "rare".
 

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I've noticed that too! I had a austrailian sheperd named Niki about 5 years ago. After she passed we started looking for aussie puppies and we couldn't find any!! I really suggest you search petfinder if you're looking for a new dog. Alot of people are 'giving up' their standard breeds (especially breeders) because they are aparently 'out of style' (stupid). Last time i searched I found like 2000 in my area! It's true that people are 'customizing' their dogs, and they are becoming more like accesories than members of the family. Sad, but true :) Hope you find the dog your looking for!
(adopt adopt adopt!!!!)

P.S.
here are some sweeties that i have found :)
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=13514647
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=12864040
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=13355746
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=4554571
http://www.petfinder.com/petnote/displaypet.cgi?petid=13276428
There are sooo many more!!
:) good luck!!!
 

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Know of "miniatures" but have never heard of "Teacup Aussies" (Though, whoever selling those is NOT trust worthy. "teacup" isn't even real and I can't imagine what they're cross breeding to make a really small Aussie.) The miniatures are just the product of two other dogs too small to meet the Aussie standard, and the tag miniature thrown on is puppies HOPEFULLY too small to meet the standard, as you can't really determine whether or not they're definitely going to be small.
They may be registered AKC, but that doesn't necessarily mean they would be in conformation shows. Since they're not the AKC standard, of course they wouldn't. But there more competitions than just conformation.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Wow! "Out of style"...sounds like they are talking about furniture, not a living, breathing family member. It's scary. We recently lost (old age) our Aussie girl, Jazz. She was such a good girl and I miss her badly but the house is soooo quiet even though I have 2 teenagers at home. I love the breed as they are and don't know why some people think they can "improve" on something that's darn near perfect anyway. :mad: It just seems to me like every other breed that has been "improved" has health issues that weren't found in the original foundation. Sorry if this offends anyone but it is my observation and it holds both in dog and horse breeding. Yes, we have been looking at the adoptions too but even some of those are mini/teacups. I guess maybe those dogs didn't match the paint in the living room or something. It's just crazy!

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there are lots of good aussie breeders out there you just have to know where to look. There is no Kennel Club that recognizes a Miniature Australian Shepherd. and actually by the very definition of the "Australian Shepherd" it CAN'T come in a mini version, why you ask.

Because the standard has NO set size for the "Australian Shepherd" Anything is acceptable as long as it is of good quality. just because it's smaller than most aussies that are shown dosn't make it a "Mini Aussie" it's still just an "Australian Shepherd"

There is a different breed out there that I do agree with however called the "North American Shepherd" that breed split off from the "Australian Shepherd" around 50 years ago and has always had a different set standard. you could call it a Cousin to the "Australian Shepherd"

If you have anymore questions about this subject I would be more than happy to help you out.
 

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there are lots of good aussie breeders out there you just have to know where to look. There is no Kennel Club that recognizes a Miniature Australian Shepherd. and actually by the very definition of the "Australian Shepherd" it CAN'T come in a mini version, why you ask.

Because the standard has NO set size for the "Australian Shepherd" Anything is acceptable as long as it is of good quality. just because it's smaller than most aussies that are shown dosn't make it a "Mini Aussie" it's still just an "Australian Shepherd"

There is a different breed out there that I do agree with however called the "North American Shepherd" that breed split off from the "Australian Shepherd" around 50 years ago and has always had a different set standard. you could call it a Cousin to the "Australian Shepherd"

If you have anymore questions about this subject I would be more than happy to help you out.
To clarify: While technically there is no set height, there is a preferred height: The preferred height for males is 20-23 inches, females 18-21 inches, however, quality is not to be sacrificed in favor of size.
 

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Mini's aren't approved by Australian Shepherd of America nor most any other governing body of AS.

Aussies are a herding/working dog that should be it's proper size, IMO. There are plenty of regular sized Aussies on some of the pet for sale websites. I was looking there today and they had Aussies of every type from $250.00 to 2,000.00.
 

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To clarify: While technically there is no set height, there is a preferred height: The preferred height for males is 20-23 inches, females 18-21 inches, however, quality is not to be sacrificed in favor of size.
Yes I know this, just because an aussie is 17, 16, 15 inches dosn't make it a "Mini Aussie" it's still an "Australian Shepherd"
 

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There are plenty of regular sized Aussies on some of the pet for sale websites. I was looking there today and they had Aussies of every type from $250.00 to 2,000.00.
IMO the "pet for sale" websites are NOT a good place to be looking for a dog. People who advertise on these sorts of sites are generally BYBs and puppy mills. ;)

I would never buy from a breeder who advertises a special size (outside of the AKC standard) as a selling point. This is NOT a responsible breeder.

If you post your general location, people on this forum might be able to help you find a reputable breeder to get your Aussie from. As someone else said, rescue/adoption is also a great way to find a dog.

I have PMed you the website of a great Aussie breeder in Wisconsin. I wasn't sure if I would be breaking rules by posting it in the thread. Since I don't know where you're located, I'm not sure if it will be helpful, but it should at least help you to know what to look for in a good breeder!
 

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---snip---
Alot of people are 'giving up' their standard breeds (especially breeders) because they are aparently 'out of style' (stupid). Last time i searched I found like 2000 in my area! It's true that people are 'customizing' their dogs, and they are becoming more like accesories than members of the family. Sad, but true :) Hope you find the dog your looking for!
(adopt adopt adopt!!!!)
That really bugs me and it is happening but that is also another topic(only because there is to much to say about it ;) ).
I do agree with using petfinder or any other more locally based pet searches that you might have in your area. Heck I live in a county seat with only 30,000 peeps and there is still (I believe) 3 different places to look for pups and cats. It is very rural out here.
 

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IMO the "pet for sale" websites are NOT a good place to be looking for a dog. People who advertise on these sorts of sites are generally BYBs and puppy mills. ;)

I would never buy from a breeder who advertises a special size (outside of the AKC standard) as a selling point. This is NOT a responsible breeder.

If you post your general location, people on this forum might be able to help you find a reputable breeder to get your Aussie from. As someone else said, rescue/adoption is also a great way to find a dog.

I have PMed you the website of a great Aussie breeder in Wisconsin. I wasn't sure if I would be breaking rules by posting it in the thread. Since I don't know where you're located, I'm not sure if it will be helpful, but it should at least help you to know what to look for in a good breeder!
I agree with you for the most part, but I recently got my Aussie puppy from a breeder and she has been a pain in the neck because she is delusional about her dogs and thinks that my puppy should be a show dog and at 3 months, wanted me to promise to show him and not neuter him, YET, she gave him a limited AKC license, so no matter how many shows he did well in, he still couldn't be used to breed, just to mention one issue. She hung up the phone on me because I told her I was pretty sure I wasn't going to show the dog and that I told her from the beginning that I was looking for a pet, not a show dog.

A lot of breeders are "stage mothers" complex type people and lots of them seem to have issues with getting along with people. Also, they think their dogs make an Einstein look stupid. Not all breeders, I can assure you, but enough of them are, to make a person be happier with a puppy mill puppy, than putting up with craziness and abuse that breeders seem to harbor.
 

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I agree with you for the most part, but I recently got my Aussie puppy from a breeder and she has been a pain in the neck because she is delusional about her dogs and thinks that my puppy should be a show dog and at 3 months, wanted me to promise to show him and not neuter him, YET, she gave him a limited AKC license, so no matter how many shows he did well in, he still couldn't be used to breed, just to mention one issue. She hung up the phone on me because I told her I was pretty sure I wasn't going to show the dog and that I told her from the beginning that I was looking for a pet, not a show dog.

A lot of breeders are "stage mothers" complex type people and lots of them seem to have issues with getting along with people. Also, they think their dogs make an Einstein look stupid. Not all breeders, I can assure you, but enough of them are, to make a person be happier with a puppy mill puppy, than putting up with craziness and abuse that breeders seem to harbor.
sounds like your breeder has tons of issues. dogs can't start showing in AKC till they are 6 months she should know that if she has any sort of dog show smarts.
 

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sounds like your breeder has tons of issues. dogs can't start showing in AKC till they are 6 months she should know that if she has any sort of dog show smarts.
I mean she wants me to get ready to show the dog at 6 months, without even knowing if this dog is truly a dog that would be a good show dog.

Right now, we are busy with housebreaking, no nipping and mouthing and other puppy issues. This woman even wanted to "help" me choose the name of MY DOG!!!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thank you all for your advice and pointers! I guess I am just worried that the standard Aussie that the breed originally started out as is going to be "lost". It just seems to me that messing around trying to get smaller (or any other trait that seems desirable today), also seems to have effects on temperament as well as health. Jazz was a wonderful example of the Aussie breed...I worry that some breeders are getting away from that. I am finding breeders on the 'net but I want to be able to meet the puppy and make sure it's the right fit for my family. Our pets are with us for life...I've had my mare for 17 years now. (she's 21 now) Her health is wonderful and I pray to have her for many more years but when her time comes, I will be there. It's just the way I am.

Nikelodeon, thanks for helping out with the breeder info! I really appreciate that! I think I have found a breeder here in Florida that sounds exactly like what a good breeder should be. Her dogs have produced show, working and companion puppies for many years now and she is careful in their placement. Her dogs are all tested for eyes, hips etc and she offers a lifetime guarantee against genetic problems. One of the things I liked was "Any dog that comes from here is welcomed back home at anytime, whether to visit or if for any reason, the owner can no longer keep the dog." And she has had to do it a few times for some people who have suffered in the economy. She seems to be a woman of her word. Right now she doesn't have any pups but as soon as she does, I get to visit! :D Ahhhh....puppy breath! I can hardly wait! :D

Again, I want to thank everyone for their posts. I learned a few things I didn't know and confirmed a few things that I did know! :)

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There is a different breed out there that I do agree with however called the "North American Shepherd" that breed split off from the "Australian Shepherd" around 50 years ago and has always had a different set standard. you could call it a Cousin to the "Australian Shepherd"

If you have anymore questions about this subject I would be more than happy to help you out.
What's the difference betwix the American a Australian shepherds?
 

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What's the difference betwix the American a Australian shepherds?
They both are from the same stock but when Aussie breeders wanted to create a breed standard others in the breed did not agree with it and split off creating their own standard. so two different breeds emerged from differing ideals.

The "Mini Aussie" Differs from the North American Shepherd in that it is an attempt made by breeders to create a version of the Australian Shepherd, that does have a Specific set standard height, that I believe is between 14 and 17 inches, by taking small individuals of the Australian Shepherd breed and breeding them to other small individuals.

The big problem I have is that a lot of "mini aussie" breeder try to claim that their dogs are the same breed only a smaller variety (similar to the Mini and Standard dachshund) but how can it be the same breed when the breeding is done for a completely different purpose and to a different standard?

basically the Australian Shepherd came from a mutt
The North american Shepherd came from a mutt
but the "mini aussie" came from the Australian Shepherd
 

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All breeders offer to take the dog back, should your purchase not work out, you lose your home, et al., or any and all reasons that the dog needs to be re-homed. It is not a sign of a good or bad or indifferent breeder, it's the same standard thing that I have heard ALL breeders offer.
 

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All breeders offer to take the dog back, should your purchase not work out, you lose your home, et al., or any and all reasons that the dog needs to be re-homed. It is not a sign of a good or bad or indifferent breeder, it's the same standard thing that I have heard ALL breeders offer.
Not all breeders...some, like the one I bought one of my shelties from, seem good at first and then a year later they are nowhere to be found. I would say most byb's don't keep in touch with their purchasers over time...how would they know if one of their pups ended up surrendered to a shelter? And then there are puppymill/petstore dogs, who are the ones most often on those puppy-for-sale websites....no breeder to return the dog to there...

The "breeder" who bred my aussie...a mini by the way, dumped the whole litter at the pound for who knows what reason, which is where I got her...yeah, they're a fad, and there are impulse buyers who end up getting in over their heads when the mini aussie ends up having all the energy and drive of a standard. They are turning up more and more in rescue.
 
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