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Discussion Starter #1
I just gave Sydney her last heartworm pill so we need to buy more before next month. When I explained to my bf how much it was going to cost from the vet (she's already been tested negative) he decided to search the interwebz for something cheaper. He found something called B Mectin which is about half the price of Interceptor. I'm inclined to just go with Interceptor anyway because I know it works and she doesn't have any adverse effects from it...plus I've never even heard of B Mectin.

But for the sake of argument I thought I'd throw him a bone and see if anyone here had heard of this stuff or had any opinions on it. Thanks ahead of time for any responses.
 

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Since Interceptor is still not in production and unavailable currently, you're going to have to go with something else anyway.

I went with the generic of HeartguardPlus (Iverhart Plus - ivermectin/pyrantel) which is no issue as a switch unless the dog is a collie breed and it is very cheap. I've never heard of B Mectin- but looking it up shows it just Ivermectin
 

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I haven't heard of it and it sounds sketchy, but also there's this: http://news.vin.com/VINNews.aspx?articleId=22041

In short, the factory where Novartis manufactures Interceptor (and several other drugs) has been shut down since late last year, so Interceptor is hard to come by right now. Maybe call your vet and see what they're recommending.

Biscuit also takes Interceptor and I've been trying to figure out what to do if Interceptor isn't back in production when we run out in a few months.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Huh, I totally forgot about that. I guess I'll give our vet a call and see what they're using now. The B Mectin stuff sounds sketchy to me too.

Sydney is a mixed breed and there's at least a small chance she has ACD in her (I'm inclined to say she doesn't based on behavior, but who knows)-- are they a breed affected by the collie gene that makes ivermectin a problem? Or is it just like border collie/rough collie/bearded collie, etc?
 

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Collie Drug fact sheet from Working Collies Association

Here's an abstract on MDR1 mutation in various breeds:
Abstract

A 4-bp deletion mutation associated with multiple drug sensitivity exists in the canine multidrug resistance (MDR1) gene. This mutation has been detected in more than 10 purebred dog breeds as well as in mixed breed dogs. To evaluate the breed distribution of this mutation in Germany, 7378 dogs were screened, including 6999 purebred and 379 mixed breed dogs. The study included dog breeds that show close genetic relationship or share breeding history with one of the predisposed breeds but in which the occurrence of the MDR1 mutation has not been reported. The breeds comprised Bearded Collies, Anatolian Shepherd Dog, Greyhound, Belgian Tervuren, Kelpie, Borzoi, Australian Cattle Dog and the Irish Wolfhound. The MDR1 mutation was not detected is any of these breeds, although it was found as expected in the Collie, Longhaired Whippet, Shetland Sheepdog, Miniature Australian Shepherd, Australian Shepherd, Wäller, White Swiss Shepherd, Old English Sheepdog and Border Collie with varying allelic frequencies for the mutant MDR1 allele of 59%, 45%, 30%, 24%, 22%, 17%, 14%, 4% and 1%, respectively. Allelic frequencies of 8% and 2% were determined in herding breed mixes and unclassified mixed breeds, respectively. Because of its widespread breed distribution and occurrence in many mixed breed dogs, it is difficult for veterinarians and dog owners to recognise whether MDR1-related drug sensitivity is relevant for an individual animal. This study provides a comprehensive overview of all affected dog breeds and many dog breeds that are probably unaffected on the basis of ∼15,000 worldwide MDR1 genotyping data.

Copyright © 2010 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved.

My understanding is that ivermection at heartworm prevention dosages is safe for dogs with the MDR1 mutation; it is higher dosages like those used to treat mange that shows toxicity. So the product labeling usually says "Use with caution in collies" as opposed to 'Never use on collies"
You can ask your vet about if they think Sydney could have any issues and there is a test for the mutation if desired.
 

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If you want to go really cheap you can use plain Ivomec. There's more ivermectin in one drop of Ivomec than in the largest dose of Heartgard (that's for if you're concerned about efficacy. As for safety, much larger doses are used for mange treatment). ACDs aren't on the MRD1 gene list: http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts-vcpl/breeds.aspx
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Thanks guys. I actually just looked through her old vet records that my mom saved from when she was a puppy. Apparently she's been on Heartguard before, so it shouldn't be a problem. The Ivomec would probably make my bf the happiest, but dosing it sounds kind of intimidating. I'll have to look more into it.

Willowy, are you talking something likethis? All the actual name brand Ivormec I can find is injectable (or looks to be to me) and that kind of freaks me out.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
The Heartguard generics are only about $4/month
Out of curiosity, where do you buy it from? I just found it at petfooddirect for a nice price and free shipping so I think I'm just going to get it there if it's cheaper than the local pet store or if they don't have it. It's about a third the price of Interceptor. o_o
 

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Out of curiosity, where do you buy it from? I just found it at petfooddirect for a nice price and free shipping so I think I'm just going to get it there if it's cheaper than the local pet store or if they don't have it. It's about a third the price of Interceptor. o_o
I bought it from the vet; it was a couple bucks more (for the 6 months package) but I've used 1800petmeds before and Drs Foster and Smith is reputable. I don't mind paying a little more for the convience of getting it direct from the vet and not having to fax the prescription into the online pharmacy and its helpful that its in the vet's computer that I bought it (since they only heartworm test every other year if you prove the dog was on meds the whole time)
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well I called the vet and they of course no longer have Interceptor and are now selling Heartguard and Trifexis. Unfortunately they do not write prescriptions (which I think is shifty) so I'll either be changing vets soon or settling for their expensive Heartguard, which is $78 for a year supply. That breaks down to $6.50 per month...idk, I might just settle for it after all, since it seems like it'll be a big hassle to get a prescription.
 

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Nope, that's not what I'm talking about. It's the injectable, but it's given orally to horses and dogs, injected for cows and pigs. Well, you could inject it for a dog if you wanted to but orally is less scary :p. Let me find a link. . .

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ivomec-injection/camid/LIV/cp/17181/
50 mls will last you forever. . .or until it expires anyway. I think mine had an expiration date about 5 years from when I bought it.
 

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I now use ivomec, it is supplied in injectable form yet you give it orally to dogs. You could inject it once lol. It hurts like all get out! Vet told me that, I just drew a dose up and one of the pups jumped I jabbed my thumb and it literally felt like it exploded! Ouch!

That was the only problem I have had, they have now been on it for about two years, one bottle lasts me a year for 6 dogs.
 

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Does it sting? LOL. I know it's bitter because it's hard to sneak it into anything. I either have to squirt it into their mouths or hide it in canned food. But they won't take it just dripped on a biscuit or anything like that.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Oh, if it's bitter and a struggle to get dogs to take I think I would pay extra for the convenience. I feel like I put her through enough with daily teeth brushing and weekly nail trimmings, both of which she politely tolerates but does not enjoy.
 

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If you buy the heartworm meds from your vet and if your dog gets heartworms the manufacturer is more than likely to pay for treatment. If you buy thru a pharmacy less likely to pay for treatment. If you use Ivomec no chance for paid treatment.
The downside with Trifexis is you have to keep your pet on it year round to be effective. If you use Heartgard make sure you tear it into pieces prior to giving to your dog. It is meant to be chewed throughly. What dog chews Heartgard? One bite and swallow if that.

As far as scripts go some vets charge a fee for online script filling. Takes time to pull file, make notes in file and fax script back to pharmacy. Well this is what those clinics say when you complain about the charge.
 

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As far as scripts go some vets charge a fee for online script filling. Takes time to pull file, make notes in file and fax script back to pharmacy. Well this is what those clinics say when you complain about the charge.
Well the lady got kind of pissy with me. I assume it's a combination of that and the fact that they really just want you to buy it from them. Luckily this one receptionist is the only person I've ever had problems with at this office. The person I talked to immediately before her (I had to call twice because I forgot to ask about the prescription) was incredibly friendly and helpful and even went over what the active ingredients in the two medications were and why they no longer had Interceptor.
 

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This is what I do for HW prevention.............

You should check with your vet first to make sure your dogs test heart worm neg.

Below is what I use and do for my 10 hounds + one dog for a friend in need (dogs 6 weeks and older) , you can use your own judgment whether this will benefit you.

Ivomec 1% injection or generic Ivermectin 1% injection type are the same drug, just compare labels.

Do not use "Ivomec Plus" or any generic" Ivermectin Plus" as it contains chemicals that may harm your dog .


If you consider Heartgard the gold standard for HW prevention please read on for small, med and large dog application.

Dosing for dog 1 to 25 pounds. 68 mcg.
Dosing for dog 26 to 50. 136 mcg.
Dosing for dog 51 to 100 pounds. 272 mcg.

As you can see there is a wide safety range for this drug as dogs at the lower end of a weight range receive much more Ivermectin than dogs at the top end. Having said this notice that FDA approved HW prevention dosing is in micrograms(mcg). Heartgard uses 2.72mcg. per pound as their upper control point , so , small dogs sometimes get significantly more Ivermectin than 2.72mcg. per pound in a given weight range.
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Ivermectin 1% injection straight out of the bottle has 10 mg of Ivermectin per ml/cc.
One ml/cc of Ivermectin 1% injection contains 10 mg. / 10,000 mcg. Ivermectin.
One tenth (1/10) ml/cc Ivermectin 1% contains 1mg. /1,000mcg. Ivermectin.

It is hard to measure less than 1/10 ml/cc. , so , for the small dog of say 20 pounds or less using the Heartgard dose of 68 mcg. Ivermectin , it would make sense to dilute the Ivermectin 1% injection.

Use food grade propylene glycol ( from local independent pharmacy or farm supply) to dilute Ivermectin 1%.

** Do Not Use Ethylene Glycol ( antifreeze ) as this is POISON and will KILL The Dog **



I buy IVOMEC® (IVERMECTIN) 1% INJECTION FOR CATTLE & SWINE, 50 ML bottle as this is the most cost effective for me.

Go to local pharmacy and pick up a new 120 ml plastic bottle, they will prolly give it to you.

Fill with food grade propylene glycol to 99 ml/cc eyeball just under the 100 ml/cc mark. Draw up 1 ml/cc Ivermectin 1% injection ( make sure it is a full ml with no air bubble) and add to the 99 ml/cc of propylene glycol in the bottle. Shake to mix.
Always clean rubber top on Ivermectin w/alcohol, let dry and use throw away syringes graduated in ml/cc . Never stick your source bottle of Ivermectin twice with same syringe , always use a new syringe.

You have 1 ml/cc Ivermectin 1% ( 10 mg ivermectin ) now in 99 ml/cc of proplene glycol for a total of 100 ml/cc.

10mg Ivermectin divided by total solution of 100ml = 0.1 mg or 100 mcg ivermectin per ml/cc.

To dose the small dog using the Heartgard schedule of 68 mcg. just draw up .7 ml/cc or 7/10 ml/cc of diluted Ivermectin 1% and you have 70 mcg. (micrograms) of Ivermectin.

To dose the large dog with above schedule 51 to 100 pounds just draw up 2.8 ml/cc or 2 and 8/10 ml/cc and you have 280 mcg. (micrograms) of Ivermectin.

Helpful Note: When measuring my dose, I pour a little of my mixed Ivermectin solution into a small dosing cup and use a dropper graduated in ml/cc or a dosing syringe(no needle) graduated in ml/cc to draw up the dose and give to dog or put on food. Make sure if on food that dog eats everything so you know the dose was given in full. If you are ever not sure your dog ate everything just re-dose with full amount the next day. Do not pour what is left over back into source bottle or you risk contamination. Just throw any solution leftover away as it is very inexpensive.

**Always use a fresh disposable sryinge to draw Ivermectin 1% and wipe top of bottle alcohol**

********Keep everything very clean so as not to contaminate mixed solution*********

Safety Note: As with any drug , make sure that Ivermectin can be used with any other medication , supplement or spot on topical such as Flea Prevention you are using. I do know that Ivermectin should not be used with the " Comfortis Flea control medication". If in doubt as to drug interaction with any med the dog is on ckeck with your vet first before using Ivermectin.


To the above HW prevention I add generic pyrantel pamoate dosed by weight for parasite prevention.
http://www.revivalanimal.com/Pyrantel-50mg.html

Best , oldhounddog
 

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^^That's the info I'm going by, too. But since larger doses of Ivermectin can be used for general deworming and mange treatment, I wouldn't bother diluting it for smaller dogs, unless they're under 10 pounds. 1/10 ml for everybody. I think 1/10 ml per 10 pounds is the general deworming dose. OK, I give Moose 2/10 ml just to be safe.

It's not really THAT bitter, because if I squirt it right into their mouths they don't act like it's horrible, paw their mouths, and drool for 10 minutes (like Penny did when she tasted Bitter Apple :p). It's just icky enough that they won't take it on something not-so-tasty like a piece of bread or a biscuit. I imagine that putting it in a hot dog would work, though! Or, like I said, canned food.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Wow, thanks for all the info, guys! I really appreciate it.
 
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