Any dog is at risk if a coyote gets into the yard.
Even an LGD?Any dog is at risk if a coyote gets into the yard.
Thanks! Ugh, I'm seeing I have quite the dilemma. I want a dog that can stay outside at night to guard the garden and my future poultry, but I don't want to risk the dog tangling with a coyote. The coyotes out here are getting bolder; they're starting to run through the neighborhood in broad daylight. Even if I had a dog outside at night and I didn't have poultry, I wonder if there's still a risk of a coyote digging under the fence to meet the dog at night?It's going to be based on the individual dog. If the coyote runs straight off and loses the dog, there's a pretty good chance your dog will stop chasing, but if the coyote is specifically trying to lure your dog into an ambush...they're going to get lured into the ambush. Coyotes will taunt your dog and lead them on.
Clever dogs might figure out what the coyote is doing if it's not taking straight off, but that's only if it's survived their first encounter...
My parents' dog, a Great Pyr/Border Collie mix (ha, two opposing forces there) was lured into a coyote ambush and probably would have been killed had my father not heard the racket and intervened. He looked like a black and white Great Pyr and probably weighed around 70 pounds, but my dad said there were five BIG coyotes and it wouldn't have taken them much longer to finish the job.
My dog (Aussie/Collie mix, 55 pounds) has tangled with one (I'm 85% sure it was a coyote, it was dark and I could not see clearly), and I do not want to know how it would have gone had we not heard the racket and intervened. He was uninjured, it sounded like more noise than an actual fight. It was dark, so we we're not clear on the particulars. Ralphie returned when called, so I'm not sure if he would have given chase if we weren't there. I think it depends very much on temperament. Some dogs will be overcome and want to give chase, and others will not. Now, though coyotes circle the yard yipping, Ralphie does not leave the property. I imagine it's because he was fortunate enough to first tangle with a coyote when humans were present to scare it off and understands they're dangerous. He's also a gentle soul and does not care for fighting with anything if he can help it...a more tenacious dog might not be dissuaded.
And, of course, if you've spent any time in the country you've likely heard stories of someone's dog running off into the darkness after coyote howls and never being seen again. Usually seems to be younger dogs who are full of themselves, but older dogs, too, and they certainly don't discriminate on breed.
An LGD is usually more than a match for a single coyote, and they're probably more likely to stick close to the livestock they're guarding than give chase. But, it's also not unheard of to lose them in the event of a pack ambush, and the young ones are more prone to making dumb mistakes.
Basically...it really depends on the dog.
I'm so sorry.I used to camp in Death Valley in the summer
(Yes, I was insane.) I remember a guy who thought it was great sport to send his dog - an Irish wolfhound, if I remember correctly - out to chase coyotes. Until one time the dog never came back.
Your best bet is a really good fence/run area for the chickens. Have a secure coop, a run made from hardware cloth (not chicken wire, pretty much everything can tear that apart no problem), and coyotes won't be able to access your chickens in the first place. They usually hunt at night (though it's not unheard of for them take something during the day) so if your chickens are put up they have little reason to visit you.Thanks! Ugh, I'm seeing I have quite the dilemma. I want a dog that can stay outside at night to guard the garden and my future poultry, but I don't want to risk the dog tangling with a coyote. The coyotes out here are getting bolder; they're starting to run through the neighborhood in broad daylight. Even if I had a dog outside at night and I didn't have poultry, I wonder if there's still a risk of a coyote digging under the fence to meet the dog at night?
That's interesting, but it makes sense. It certainly LOOKS like they're taunting...but perhaps that's just them telling their nearby family members that some dumb dog is following them and looking back to see if the dumb owner called their dog off yet! 😂Coyotes luring dogs back into their packs is a myth. What really happens is that a dog gives chase to a lone coyote, coyote flees back to the safety of their pack, and the pack defends themselves against a threat (the dog). Here is an infographic, but a Google search will bring up more in-depth information.
Thanks for the ideas! I'd never heard of the fence "apron" before. That's great! I could probably add the fence apron to my chicken coop, but not to the rest of my property. (I have about 2 acres all fenced off, so to add a fence apron all around the 2 acres is not practical.)Your best bet is a really good fence/run area for the chickens. Have a secure coop, a run made from hardware cloth (not chicken wire, pretty much everything can tear that apart no problem), and coyotes won't be able to access your chickens in the first place. They usually hunt at night (though it's not unheard of for them take something during the day) so if your chickens are put up they have little reason to visit you.
If you add an "apron" to your fence, which is hardware cloth buried beneath and angled outward, they won't be able to dig under, either.
That's interesting, but it makes sense. It certainly LOOKS like they're taunting...but perhaps that's just them telling their nearby family members that some dumb dog is following them and looking back to see if the dumb owner called their dog off yet! 😂
Finally a sensible response! I've lived around coyotes and the woods most of my life. Never lost a dog, of any size, to a lone coyote or to a pack! That whole luring idea, IMHO, was dreamed up by someone who has never spent much time around coyotes!Coyotes luring dogs back into their packs is a myth. What really happens is that a dog gives chase to a lone coyote, coyote flees back to the safety of their pack, and the pack defends themselves against a threat (the dog).
My controversial opinion is that people like the idea of hunting coyotes, so they paint them out to be nuisance animals. I grew up on a ranch with cattle and poultry - my parents still have both - and not once have we lost an animal to a coyote except for maybe wandering farm cats. Yet local ranchers like to paint them as this major issue that they have to hunt to control - no, they just want to hunt them.Finally a sensible response! I've lived around coyotes and the woods most of my life. Never lost a dog, of any size, to a lone coyote or to a pack! That whole luring idea, IMHO, was dreamed up by someone who has never spent much time around coyotes!
^THIS is a really good point! While I wouldn't hesitate to send my GSD after 2 or 3 coyotes, a single large male raccoon is a formidable adversary, and would give me pause! Raccoons are much more likely to engage in combat with a dog, and even a small juvenile can hold it's own against a GSD!My controversial opinion is that people like the idea of hunting coyotes, so they paint them out to be nuisance animals. I grew up on a ranch with cattle and poultry - my parents still have both - and not once have we lost an animal to a coyote except for maybe wandering farm cats. Yet local ranchers like to paint them as this major issue that they have to hunt to control - no, they just want to hunt them.
OP, I would personally be much more concerned about raccoons than coyotes as far as your poultry is concerned. Coyotes and other predators are really pretty easily deterred - a decent fence is all it really takes. But racoons are extremely smart and very determined. My parents have their chickens now in a coop that was placed over a buried concrete pad, with a solid roof over the top, and free ranging is limited and supervised. Their last setup had welded wire buried under the ground - the racoons dug under, pried the wire apart, and got into the coop and back out again. Every chicken they've ever lost has been to a raccoon (but none since they put in their new setup!).
An LGD (or even an Aussie could work) that is out there regularly with free-ranging chickens would probably be enough to deter raccoons, but be sure your overnight setup is secure. Any way you think that you could possibly break in, the raccoons surely can.
Curious, why would an lgd be more expensive than an Aussie in upkeep? Aside from eating more?I'm trying to figure out what dog breeds are both most territorial and family and least likely to be duped by coyotes trying to bait them before hunting the dog down with the rest of the coyote pack.
Australian Shepherd owners, have your dogs experienced coyote encounters?
I owned an Aussie previously. My experience has been that they do seem to be a territorial breed, but they're also fearless enough to chase and snap at any and every threatening wild animal that enters their yard. If a coyote digs under a fence to get into an Australian Shepherd's yard, will the Aussie have enough self-control to chase the coyote out of the yard and follow him no further than the fence line, resisting the urge to squeeze out the hole the coyote made?
I know LGDs are good for dealing with coyotes, but LGDs are sooo expensive in upkeep. I guess I'd save up for an LGD breed if I had to, but if there are smaller dogs that are nearly as smart as an LGD, I'd love to find that out, too!
Thanks for your input!