Puppy Forum and Dog Forums banner

1 - 13 of 13 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,215 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Ok, So before I came on this forum I had NEVER heard of different sized Aussie shepherds.

So can I ask, whats the deal? I don't want to offend anyone who has one, but the thought of a toy shepherd seems a little ridiculous to me. A dog that was meant to round up sheep and work on the farm. Toy. Hmmmm.

Are they legit breeds in America or what? Can anyone give me more information about them?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,936 Posts
Mini Aussies are kinda sorta legit, there are "real" mini aussie's and mini's that have been randomly mixed with other breeds to make them smaller faster, some split off as a North American Shepherd etc.. its a big mess lol

Toy Aussies are not even a little bit legit anywhere.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,536 Posts
They are called a North American Shepherd and now have a breed club. I don't know much about them, but I'm sure you could google that and find lots.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,406 Posts
Mini and toy Aussies (now known in AKC as Miniature American Shepherds) were never the same breed as the Australiain Shepherd and come from different foundation stock (very small dogs -many of which were merle). They have been around almost as long as Australian shepherds and are in the process of becoming recognized by AKC. It's a bit problematical, as they are frequently bred by high volume breeders who cross in a number of other small breeds. But there are legitimate breeders trying to establish a true type and legitimate pedigrees. These are the foundation of MAS: http://www.myspace.com/travistoyaussies/photos/1550016#{"ImageId":1550016}
As you can see, they don't look much like Aussies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,215 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Ohk, thanks for clearing that up! They do look quite different. Clears up a lot of confusion on my part. It does sound like a bit of a mess though lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,131 Posts
Ohk, thanks for clearing that up! They do look quite different. Clears up a lot of confusion on my part. It does sound like a bit of a mess though lol.
There are no Australian Shepherd clubs that recognize any size variety. The Australian Shepherd breed standard has always been very clear that size doesn't matter much and quality and working ability is more important. People like the "Mini" breeders who claim to love the Aussie but feel the need to put height restrictions on their breeding dogs are disturbing and frankly make me sick.

Now if your talking about the new Miniature American Shepherds? I think they're great and I look forward to seeing them at the shows coming up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,215 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I had never heard of american shepherds either, so that probably contributed to the confusion. height restrictions on breeding working dogs? Oh dear. I can see the nicety of having a small aussie shepherd and how cute it would be but that's not the point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,406 Posts
I had never heard of american shepherds either, so that probably contributed to the confusion. height restrictions on breeding working dogs? Oh dear. I can see the nicety of having a small aussie shepherd and how cute it would be but that's not the point.
My Alice is only 17.5 inches, and a heck of a tough little thing on cattle. I don't think the actual intention of creating a toy or mini "Aussie" was to create a smaller stock dog but to create a small companion that sort of looks like a stock dog.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,215 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
My Alice is only 17.5 inches, and a heck of a tough little thing on cattle. I don't think the actual intention of creating a toy or mini "Aussie" was to create a smaller stock dog but to create a small companion that sort of looks like a stock dog.

Ah yeah mini I don't have an issue with as size does obviously vary and if the stock is good then the dog is still going to perform right?. It was the "toy" shepherd that I had the issue with. I cant think of anything cooler then a smaller sized aussie, what you'd call mini I guess, huge personality in a little body lol.
Aussie Shepherd is definitely a dog on my bucket list. Everytime I meet one I fall head over heals.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,406 Posts
Ah yeah mini I don't have an issue with as size does obviously vary and if the stock is good then the dog is still going to perform right?. It was the "toy" shepherd that I had the issue with. I cant think of anything cooler then a smaller sized aussie, what you'd call mini I guess, huge personality in a little body lol.
Aussie Shepherd is definitely a dog on my bucket list. Everytime I meet one I fall head over heals.
Well, Alice is small, but she's not a "mini". she's an Aussie with a pedigree that is 100% old working style Aussie. However, when we did go to the MAS nationals for APDT Rally (offered all breed) she didn't look that different from some of the larger minis. Now, Ray, at 21.5 inches stuck out like a sore thumb! I honestly don't mind if people want mini (and even toy) MAS. People should be able to have the dog that appeals to them. What I do object to is when they claim that they are a size variety of the Australian Shepherd. They aren't. They never were. And they were not "bred down" in size. They started tiny (Sandy Travis brags that the biggest dog she had was 14") And the only relatives they have are the Aussies that the MAS people crossed in to make them look more like Aussies.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,131 Posts
Yep Lark's mother is 17 inches tall but is also an Australian Shepherd, not a Mini. Smaller than average height doesn't make an Australian Shepherd anything different than what it is, it does not automatically become a new breed called a "Mini Aussie" just cause it's smaller than average. And there is a good percentage of the population that crosses over some Minis are bigger than some Aussies. Differences is Mini's HAVE to be bred to a certain height according to their breed standard while Aussies don't have such a requirement in their standard.

Mini's are different because as Pawzk9 stated, they started from different foundation dogs and their original purpose was different as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,186 Posts
Herding dogs are different than show dogs in that ability matters more than looks. The border collie breeder I know breeds working dogs and one of her studs is the biggest BC I've ever seen by quite a margin, but he's also fantastic at herding and her working customers rave over the pups he produces.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,215 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
Well, Alice is small, but she's not a "mini". she's an Aussie with a pedigree that is 100% old working style Aussie. However, when we did go to the MAS nationals for APDT Rally (offered all breed) she didn't look that different from some of the larger minis. Now, Ray, at 21.5 inches stuck out like a sore thumb! I honestly don't mind if people want mini (and even toy) MAS. People should be able to have the dog that appeals to them. What I do object to is when they claim that they are a size variety of the Australian Shepherd. They aren't. They never were. And they were not "bred down" in size. They started tiny (Sandy Travis brags that the biggest dog she had was 14") And the only relatives they have are the Aussies that the MAS people crossed in to make them look more like Aussies.
Oh, wasn't trying to imply there were mini Aussies sorry! I was just saying some are small enough for some silly people to turn round and say "its a mini aussie!" when really it's not. Its an Australian Shepherd. That's why I was so flabbergasted when I started reading threads about mini and toy. I thought surely not! And surely it is not :) thank goodness.
 
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Top