Puppy Forum and Dog Forums banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,997 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm curious about this as I was reading another web site that claimed they weren't. The claim was that a dog's immune system works similar to ours so that once they've had all their shots they're pretty much set for life. The site also claimed that vets recommend yearly shots because up until recently, that was the standard but now it has changed. They also said there are some vets who recommend the shots just because they make a fair ammount of money off of them. I must confess the logic kind of made sense. I don't get a measles shot every year and I'm still immune to the measles (I hope). Are dogs immune systems that much different from ours?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,075 Posts
There are many threads here about vaccinations. Do a search at the top of the page. I will try to get back on later aftter work and post some studies.

My protocol with my dogs...all puppy series shots suggested by vet for your area, initial rabies, rabies as suggested until 4-6 years old, boosters on viral shots every 3 years (our vet splits the shots into single doses...one year you get distemper, one year you get hep, etc until you have made the complete rounds, but never more than 3 years duration for any one virus) until 6 years...then nothing unless there is something new, they are going to classes or shows, some reason that my vet may suggest a booster.

No matter how you choose to get vaccinations for your dog, our vet only requests that you schedule a yearly exam so that he can keep current and screen the dog for any early warning signs of other health matters. More than a year...he will not guarantee that he will meet you at the office after hours for an emergency...he may suggest you take the dog to the ER vet to the tune of $300 just to walk in the door...so it's well worth my while to make the annual exam appointments.

Currently we are good for the next 3 years on rabies, the only one that is required by law unless vet provides a waiver for medical reasons. I'm hoping that the rabies challenge test has some results by the time my 3 years is up to prove that rabies lasts a lot longer. Initial studies leaned in that direction.

I'm sure others iwll post more during the day, I'll get back online tonight.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,997 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I think a routine checkup is a must. That's recommended for humans (though we don't all do it) so to me it only makes sense to do that with dogs as well. Locally, a rabies shot is required annually. I don't think anything else is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,628 Posts
Back in 1993, give or take a year, my then vet showed me a letter she received from the AVMA stating that the only benefit of annual vaccinations was a financial benefit for those who manufacture, and for those who administer, them. She even gave me a copy of the letter but over the years I lost it. She also went on about how humans are only vaccinated as children and not again as adults because the immunity from the vaccinations are long lasting, long lasting enough to last the life time of a dog.

Jihad
and the pound puupy crew.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,699 Posts
Annual vaccinations are not only unnecessary, they are detrimental. 5-in one, and 7-in one shots just horrify me, especially when given at the same time as the Rabies, and right before a spay/neuter. Makes you wonder what the devil that vet is about.

I'm not saying that vaccinations are not necessary. However, doing them over and over and over again, year after year, is insane! Many vaccinations are absolutely worthless (like Corona), and many others are more dangerous than what they're supposed to prevent.

Do your research, and include Dr. Jean Dodds' protocol in your search.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
180 Posts
My dogs get the puppy shots and that's it for life. I've never had a problem with any of htem. Those shots destroy their immune system from the papers I've read about them so I don't do shots anymore and haven't for the last 15 yrs. Last time I went to my vet's it was for a social call, my dogs are just never sick...I'm a raw feeder.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,075 Posts
From Dr. Schultz, one of the original investigators of vaccines...this from 1995!

CURRENT RECOMMENDATIONS FOR DOGS
Distemper & Parvo * "According to Dr. Schultz, AVMA, 8-15-95,
when a vaccinations series given at 2, 3 & 4 months and again at
1 year with a MLV, puppies and kitten program memory cells that survive for
life, providing lifelong immunity." Dr. Carmichael at Cornell and
Dr. Schultz have studies showing immunity against challenge at 2-10 years for
canine distemper & 4 years for parvovirus. Studies for longer
duration are pending. "Parvovirus vaccination provides
cross immunity for all types." Hepatitis (Adenovirus) is one of
the agents known to be a cause of kennel cough. Only vaccines
with CAV-2 should be used asCAV-1 vaccines carry the risk of
"hepatitis blue-eye" reactions & kidney damage.**Bordetella Parainfluenza: Commonly called "Kennel cough" Recommended only for those dogs boarded, groomed, taken to dog shows, or for any reason housed where exposed to a lot of dogs. The intranasal vaccine provides more complete and more
rapid onset of immunity with less chance of reaction. Immunity requires 72 hours and does not protect from every cause of kennel cough. Immunity is of short duration (4 to
6 months).*

*RABIES There have been no reported cases of rabid dogs or cats
in Harris, Montogomery or Ft. Bend Counties [Texas], there have
been rabid skunks and bats so the potential exists. / It is a
killed vaccineand must be given every year./*//

*Lyme disease_is a tick born disease which can cause lameness,
kidney failure and heart disease in dogs. Ticks can also transmit
the disease to humans. The original Ft. Dodge killed bacteria has proven to be the most effective vaccine. Lyme disease prevention should emphasize early
removal of ticks. Amitraz collars are more effective than Top
Spot, as amitraz paralyzes the tick's mouthparts preventing
transmission of disease.

**VACCINATIONS NOT RECOMMENDED* *
Multiple components in vaccines compete with each other for the
immune system and result in lesser immunity for each individual
disease as well as increasing the risk of a reaction. Canine Corona Virus is only a disease of puppies. It is rare, self limiting (dogs get well in
3 days without treatment). Cornell & Texas A&M have only
diagnosed one case each in the last 7 years. Corona virus does
not cause disease in adult dogs.*

*Leptospirosis vaccine is a common cause of adverse reactions in
dogs. Most of the clinical cases of lepto reported in dogs in the
US are caused by serovaars (or types) grippotyphosa and
bratsilvia. The vaccines contain different serovaars eanicola and
ictohemorrhagica. Cross protection is not provided and protection
is short lived. Lepto vaccine is immuno-supressive to puppies
less than 16 weeks.


And from Dr. Dodd...

*I would like to make you aware that all 27 veterinary schools in
North America are in the process of changing their protocols for
vaccinating dogs and cats. Some of this information will present an ethical
&economic challenge to vets, and there will be skeptics.

Some organizations have come up with a political compromise
suggesting vaccinations every 3 years to appease those who fear
loss of income vs. those concerned about potential side effects. Politics,
traditions, or the doctor's economic well being should not be a
factor in medical decision.

NEW PRINCIPLES OF IMMUNOLOGY

"Dogs and cats immune systems mature fully at 6 months. If a
modified live virus vaccine is given after 6 months of age, it
produces an immunity which is good for the life of the pet (ie:
canine distemper,parvo, feline distemper). If another MLV vaccine
is given a year later, the antibodies from the first vaccine
neutralize the antigens of the second vaccine and there is little
or no effect. The titer is not "boosted" nor are more memory
cells induced." Not only are annual boosters for parvo and distemper unnecessary, they subject the pet to potential risks of allergic reactions and immune-mediated hemolytic anemia. "There is no scientific documentation to back up label claims for annual administration of MLV vaccines."
Puppies receive antibodies through their mothers milk. This
natural protection can last 8-14weeks. Puppies & kittens should
NOT be vaccinated at LESS than 8weeks. Maternal immunity will
neutralize the vaccine and little protection (0-38%) will be produced. Vaccination at 6 weeks will, however, delay the timing of the first highly
effective vaccine. Vaccinations given 2 weeks apart suppress
rather than stimulate the immune system. A series of vaccinations
is given starting at 8 weeks and given 3-4 weeks apart up to 16
weeks of age.Another vaccination given sometime after 6 months of
age (usually at 1 year 4mo) will provide lifetime immunity.


From me...because my dogs participate in shows and classes (which will not enroll them unless shots are current, but my vet can be very nice about these things...) I err on the side of caution. My dogs get all of their puppy series, the initial and second rabies, and then one more of each vaccination...which usually takes them to 4 or 5 years of age. I never allow a vet to give my dogs combination vaccinations. They are available fractionated, a bit more expensive but worth it to me. There are two vaccines that only come in combo (can't remember which ones). But basically they get their second rabies about 18 months old. Then they are good for three years where I live. In the interim two years they see the vet for an annual exam and ONE viral vaccination. The other viral vac only comes in combo (2 vacs in one shot. I think it's the distemper and CAV-2???)) so they get that the second year. The third year is back to rabies. At that point they are usually betwoeen 4-5 years of age. And then I try really hard never to have to give them another vaccination again.

Rabies requirements in our area are every 3 years after the first two shots one year apart. However, you can always ask your vet about the consequences if your dog were to bite someone and that person reported it to authorities. In our county, the dog who bit is quarantined for 2 weeks, usually at the county shelter. But it is legal for the dog to be quarantined at a vet's office as long as they have proper kennel facilities. So our vet has written in all of our charts that he is to be notified by his staff if any of our dogs are ever quarantined by the county for rabies and he will immediately transport them to his clinic for quarantine. That's good enough for me. And fortunately, our two oldest dogs that have gone the longest without rabies vacs (it's been about 5 years now) came to us missing enough teeth that the odds of breaking the skin even if they TRIED to bite someone, is slim and none! So not much worry there. Our youngest dog isn't due for another rabies shot for 3 years and I'm hoping the initial results of the Dr. Dodds rabies challenge study will be enough to convince all of us that re-vaccinating is not the answer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,467 Posts
IMO no & no...


We have a 15 year old who hasn't gotten a booster since she was 6 months old. It's been almost two years since she had her rabies, as well.

None of mine get yearly booster anymore.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,968 Posts
Instead of boosters, get a Titer test done on your dog every 3 years or so. Titers test your dog for existing immunities, and can show whether or not your dog needs a booster.

All vaccines should give immunity for the life of the dog, just like they do with humans. Rabies is only needed annually because of many state laws, and even then, many states are switching to an 'every 3-years' rabies vaccination schedule, or accept titer testing results proving your dog is still immune.

Back in the days when these annual vaccination schedules were adopted, most dogs were hunting/working/outdoor only dogs that had a lot more contact with sick wild animals or other roaming, sick dogs than then average dog today. Over-vaccination is thought to be the cause of autoimmune disorders in some dogs, as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,140 Posts
No they are not.

Rabies unless you get titers done is required every 1, 2 or 3yrs depending on your location. This is only a requirement by law and not an actual need.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
971 Posts
Okay, first of all .... WOW. I sooooo thought that yearly shots were mandatory! Even though my oldest dog, who is 13, is in the same boat as my other dogs. With the exception of my 10 month old dog, all the others have had their puppy shots plus more when they were older but I can't honestly remember when each of them had ALL up-to-date shots. I always felt like a bad pet parent. :( And last couple of years when I told the vet I only wanted the rabies shot he acted towards me as if I should have been ashamed. Which of course made me feel that much more of a bad pet parent. :(

Back in the days when these annual vaccination schedules were adopted, most dogs were hunting/working/outdoor only dogs that had a lot more contact with sick wild animals or other roaming, sick dogs than then average dog today. Over-vaccination is thought to be the cause of autoimmune disorders in some dogs, as well.
My dogs spend a great amount of time outside being they're not house dogs. Does that change everything for me with my dogs needing early shots?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,968 Posts
Not really. Unlike back in the day, before vaccinations, those diseases (besides rabies) were a lot more common. Really, rabies would be the only thing you need -- but check to see if your state allows rabies Titers instead of actual boosters every year (some states have already switched to 'every 3 years' for rabies). Titers show your dog's immunity levels without injecting them with anything (it just requires a blood sample).

If you are still worried because of your dogs' outdoor lifestyle, you can do yearly Parvo/Distemper Titers so you can keep on top of how their immunity levels are doing. Titer results for those two diseases are considered a good sign of how much your dog is immune to everything else.

And last couple of years when I told the vet I only wanted the rabies shot he acted towards me as if I should have been ashamed. Which of course made me feel that much more of a bad pet parent
A great deal of vets' regular incomes come from annual boosters. Sad to say, many will happily guilt trip pet owners into paying for treatments their dogs don't even need. The vet industry is very unregulated, so as a customer you have to keep yourself informed, or you can easily get scammed. (I'm not claiming all/most vets are scammers, but it IS very easy for a dishonest vet to make a living with no real fear of penalties).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
971 Posts
Yes, I'm going to ask my vet about the titer test. Also I'm going to confront my vet about how necessary yearly shots are to see what he says. Actually, I think I might ask a couple different vets in my area about that. That way I can compare their answers and see which one is more honest with me. ;)
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top