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Care to give any anecdotal evidence on how you're perfect? Or do you have a plan on how the AKC can give guarantees, or how and why they should interfere in the customer/breeder transaction?


No, I don't care to give any anecdotal evidence on how I'm perfect, I'm not here for that. I read this thread and saw how much you people have been chastising others for obtaining their dogs from various sources and/or having non akc registered pooches. When its quite obvious you may have never heard any of the sad stories, such as one like mine. Yeah, I have a bad taste in my mouth about AKC. And its not my job to figure out how they can improve, I'm not here for that either. If it were my organization, I'd be improving it though. I'm just here to make a simple post. Haha. Thats it, plain and simple. I read a post where someone said go to the APRI website and then go to AKC and see which one "looks" more reputable. A website is a website. I can make one look BETTER than AKC...does that make me more reputable then them?? Come on!!!!!!
 

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The point was there are more red flags on the APRI site than the AKC site. To someone who's knowledgable about what should be contained on the website, the red flags of the APRI site is obvious. It doesn't take a genious to see that information is lacking severely. And if the APRI site should ever contend to be valuable, an effort must be obvious. The fact is it's not. So as a starting point, the AKC website wins hands down. It's a starting point, it should not be misconstrued as evidence of quality for the puppy you buy. Again, only a knowledgable owner can assure their pups quality by the choices they make. And I'm sorry, anecdotes don't hold much water with me. Did you confront the AKC? Who have you spoken to about your case?
 

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You can still register a dog of a disqualified color, coat length, etc. as long as it's purebred, but it doesn't mean that dog will win any shows. If I hadn't neutered my "fluffy" corgi, they would have let him through too, but I would have been laughed out of the show ring. Registration doesn't mean jack if the dog isn't shown and proven in the ring.

I still think it's disgusting of the APRI to run contests where you win free pet store dogs etc. and I still do not recognise them as a reputable place to register my dog.
 

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Snowshoe, I don't see AKC registration as being anything great.
"There is a widely held belief that "AKC" or "AKC papers" and quality are one and the same. This is not the case. AKC is a registry body. A registration certificate identifies the dog as the offspring of a known sire and dam, born on a known date. It in no way indicates the quality or state of health of the dog." - from the AKC website.
There is also a good chance that the breeder is not being truthful about the information on the slip....AKC doesn't really check. They just count on the integrity of the breeder.
Well, duh! LOL!

That's why you have to research the breeder too! I think I've said that about 1,0000000000 times on this forum.

Being AKC is only ONE WAY out of MANY WAYS to tell if a breeder is quality. Sheesh!
 

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You can still register a dog of a disqualified color, coat length, etc. as long as it's purebred, but it doesn't mean that dog will win any shows.
That kind of answers what I was going to ask. I don't know much about the AKC and what the terminology means. If something is a "disqualification," does that mean it can't be registered, or is a disqualification from the show ring? I always thought it was a disqualification from the ring, because some disqualifications aren't apparent at birth. For instance, I know Pekingese can't be over 14 pounds, but that wouldn't be known when a pup is first registered.
 

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You can still register a dog of a disqualified color, coat length, etc. as long as it's purebred, but it doesn't mean that dog will win any shows. If I hadn't neutered my "fluffy" corgi, they would have let him through too, but I would have been laughed out of the show ring. Registration doesn't mean jack if the dog isn't shown and proven in the ring.

I still think it's disgusting of the APRI to run contests where you win free pet store dogs etc. and I still do not recognise them as a reputable place to register my dog.
I was just about to say this. Not all AKC registered dogs are showable. Many are DQs, it's up to the breeder to fix them . It wouldn't be allowed in the show ring, but if the dog is from registered parents, it can be registered.
 

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The point was there are more red flags on the APRI site than the AKC site. To someone who's knowledgable about what should be contained on the website, the red flags of the APRI site is obvious. It doesn't take a genious to see that information is lacking severely. And if the APRI site should ever contend to be valuable, an effort must be obvious. The fact is it's not. So as a starting point, the AKC website wins hands down. It's a starting point, it should not be misconstrued as evidence of quality for the puppy you buy. Again, only a knowledgable owner can assure their pups quality by the choices they make. And I'm sorry, anecdotes don't hold much water with me. Did you confront the AKC? Who have you spoken to about your case?
If you think that the AKC site is good you should go look at some real registration sites. AKC is so lacking it is not funny. There is so much they can do to not only improve their site but also the registry. I actually find the AKC a joke when it comes to registries. Sad thing is it is the best for Dog registires in this country.

Heidi
 

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If you think that the AKC site is good you should go look at some real registration sites. AKC is so lacking it is not funny. There is so much they can do to not only improve their site but also the registry. I actually find the AKC a joke when it comes to registries. Sad thing is it is the best for Dog registires in this country.

Heidi
I'm sticking with comparing apples to apples, thank you. And again, AKC registration has very little to do with one's overall scheme in buying the best pup for them. In fact, not all good pups come with AKC registration because some breeds aren't recognized by the AKC...take the Portuguese Podengo for instance. I would still only buy from a breeder who was an active member of the Portuguese Podengo Club of America, but AKC registration wouldn't be a requirement. And yes, as a registry of registries, the AKC is the best America has...no other registry in America is recognized in other countries like the AKC. Where the parent dogs are registered is only one factor among many factors that one should look at when buying a pup. Never had I said it was an end all or the only factor to consider. Unless you're an advocat for rescue only, I can't see how anyone could advocate APRI over the AKC under any normal circumstance. Not saying that anyone is, but to bash the AKC without commenting on APRI, it's implied advocacy for APRI. So bash the heck out of both of them, or at the very least the worst offender first.
 

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It was stated that the judge of a registry was based on the web site and info there in. TO me AKC and all other dog registries are a POOR example of a registry. If you are looking for the best dog then the registry is one of the best tools out there and the AKC is so lacking in what it does it is not funny.

Also to say comparing Apples to Apples a animal registry no matter what breed it is is still an animal reigistry and they can and should provide all stats on each animal and make that info available to it membership and AKC does not.

Does AKC papers garentee a great dog? No it does not nor does any registry. However if they did more to compile info on each dog that is being bred and shown and the crosses and such and breeders and people looking for a pup could use this info to help make a more informed educated desitions posible.

Heidi
 

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The argument is APRI vs. AKC. It's not about what can be improved about the AKC. We could write volumes on that subject alone. Just as people could write volumes about how our governments and public school systems could be improved. But in the argument of APRI vs. AKC, to point our where the AKC is lacking as an argument does nothing to highlight the weaknesses of APRI. My point has been and will be if you do your homework properly, a pup's parents will most likely be AKC registered, and not APRI registered. Again, that assumes you do your homework properly...most people don't. Most people don't even know why they should have a certain breed outside of looks, much less look into the parent dog's lineage. So until the communal will changes in that aspect, the AKC will only improve as quickly as they deem fit. Much like how governments and public shcools are changed.
 

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Like I said yes AKC is the better of 2 evals. That being said it does have so fare to go will it every change. Probable not b/c the breeders who use AKC to register their dogs do not want this info made public. WHY? What is wrong with people knowing what your animal has or has not done. Why are they so secritive? What are they hiding? Why is it so hard to get info on any dog? These are just a few of the problems I see with AKC and most of the other dog registries out there. It is easyer to get info form the CIA then from AKC on a dog or owner.

Heidi
 

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I would contend that if a breeder withholds information from a customer, the customer should withhold patronizing the breeder. The AKC should be there to help the customer when there is a question, but I would not expect the AKC to interfere with the breeder/customer transaction. That's not their role. If there is a question on the recorded parentage it's the customer's responsibility to request DNA testing. The AKC isn't buying the dog, the customer is. So I contend the responsibility is in the right place. Can a library do more to categorize their books, certainly, but can they do anything to stop you from checking out one book over another, no.
 

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I would contend that if a breeder withholds information from a customer, the customer should withhold patronizing the breeder. The AKC should be there to help the customer when there is a question, but I would not expect the AKC to interfere with the breeder/customer transaction. That's not their role. If there is a question on the recorded parentage it's the customer's responsibility to request DNA testing. The AKC isn't buying the dog, the customer is. So I contend the responsibility is in the right place. Can a library do more to categorize their books, certainly, but can they do anything to stop you from checking out one book over another, no.
My point is HOW WOULD YOU KNOW what the breeder is telling you is the truth if you can not go and varifie it. That is the role of AKC I should able to call them or get on their web site and varify what the breeder is telling me. I should be able to varify ownership, Breeding records, get records, show records, and any other info I want. As it stands now I can go to a breeder and say hay what has your dog done and what has your dog produced where was it shown? What is the best cross on these lines and so much more and they can tell me just about anything they want. There is very little I can varifie through AKC and that is not right THAT IS AKC JOB. They should keep records and make them available to every member who wants them. As it stands now you can not get any substantial info. I know I have checked on my pups.

AKC's role is to varifie parentage and make sure that what breeders are doing it correct. DNA testing should be requiered for every breeding dog registerd with AKC before any litter or pup can be registered. If they are going to varifie a pedigree then that is what it should be no if and or buts about it.

My horses are all DNA Typed and parentage varifed and it is stated right on their papers with a number to call and varifie it. If there is any know genetic defect in their lines it is also stated on their papers and if they have been DNA tested for the defect and what the results are. I can pull any record on any horse I want. There should be the same with any large registry. Heck there are even small registries who requier this and keep this type of info and make it avalable to it membership.

What is up to the owner is to varifie what the breeder or person selling the animal is correct. However to do so requiers a Registry that is held responsible to keep track of such things. I do not care how responsible a breeder or person it I still want to varifie it through a registry.

EX: I bought a mare from a very good friend of mine. She has over 40 years of breeding NRHA reining horse she has owned NRHA Hall Of Fame horses and horses show are world champions furutiry re champions and much much more. Her reputation is impecable in the reining world. However when she told me what she had and asked if I wanted to work out a deal I still went and varified everything she told me even ownership on the mare. I knew sire record and I knew dams sire record however I still looked everything up dams produce record show record and so on. Why? Not b/c I did not trust what she was telling me but I wanted to see for myself. Does not mean she is a bad breeder or person I just wanted to know. B/C I could varify what she was telling I made the deal site unseen.

Heidi
 

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DNA Parentage Profile

So are you saying $20 is too much for verification?
No what I am saying is that every dog being used for breeding should be DNA Typed and parentage varfied before any litter or pup can be registed out of those dogs.

If the owner of the pup wants to DNA type the pup that is up to them and then they can parantage varify the pup however the new owner should not have to pay for each parent it should already be on file with AKC.

Heidi
 

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I would agree, it would be better for the buyer if it weren't voluntary. I would contend then that it should be a consideration of a breeder's quality if they didn't volunteer this information and for $20, I'd do it in a heartbeat if I were to ever buy a pup.
 

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I know that both of my pups will be DNA typed weither they are bred or not. There are just so many things I would like to see changed with AKC and it would be so easy. However after talking to AKC about these things what I get is that the majority of breeders do not want this info mad public and I find that odd being from a registry/association who makes all these thing readally available and easally checked.

I may have posted this before and if I did I appoligeze but this is what I would like to see AKC provide on each dog registerd with them. Now not every dog will have these records if they are never shown or bred however the info should still be available and it would just show that the dog has no record b/c it has never been shown. Hope that makes sence. If you look through and this is just part of the record it is way too long to past the entier thing here but you can see the info given on each horse sired by this stallion.

You can see it give quite a bit of info. This info can be used in many aspects. This same info would be very usefull with dogs also as when it comes down to the basice info needed and breeding 101 they really are the same in many respects.

Heidi

GET OF SIRE DETAIL
Performing Foals of GUN START

REG. NO. HORSE'S NAME COLOR SEX DATE FOAL ST
1525303 GUN START BAY STALLION 04/01/1979 OH


Additional Horse Information for GUN START:

Genetic Typed
SIRE DAM MATERNAL GRANDSIRE
1213973 BEAU GUNNER 0752745 PRICE'S START 0227368 JUNO SNORT RED


DESCRIPTION NAME ADDRESS
BREEDER: EARL AND/OR GALE COX MIDDLETOWN, OH
OWNER: BRYAN MAAS PARKSTON, SD

AQHA Show Totals for GUN START LAST SHOW OPEN
HALTER OPEN PERFORM AMATEUR HALTER AMATEUR PERFORM YOUTH HALTER YOUTH PERFORM NOVICE AMATEUR NOVICE YOUTH EQ W/ DISAB
06/1987 .0 24.0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0 .0

AQHA/Alliance Totals for GUN START
Accuracy and completeness of information are the responsibility of each alliance. NATIONAL REINING HORSE ASSOCIATION $ 4,695.13 Earned thru 11/17/1984

Achievements for GUN START YEAR TYPE DESCRIPTION
1983 OPEN WORLD SHOW JR REINING 3rd PLACE
1983 OPEN PERFORMANCE REGISTER OF MERIT

GUN START'S Performing Offspring



NARA GUNNER 2284225 Black Mare 06/01/1984
Dam- TWINKLE JOE RIO 0455702 Damsire- TRIPLE TWINKLE 0199271
Show: 06/1987 Open- H- .0 P- 1.0 Amateur- H- .0 P- .0 Youth- H- .0 P- .0

RWD START 2286987 Sorrel Gelding 04/01/1984
Dam- POCOTALICO 0715576 Damsire- DART'S ZERO BAR 0451836
Show: 09/1992 Open- H- .0 P- 20.5 Amateur- H- .0 P- .5 Youth- H- .0 P- .0
Novice Amateur- P- 2.0 Novice Youth- P- .0 Eq w/ Disabilities- P- .0
National Reining Horse Association: $ 78,022.90 Earned thru 11/05/1989
Achievement: 1992 OPEN QUALIFIED SR REINING WORLD SHOW
Achievement: 1992 OPEN PERFORMANCE REGISTER OF MERIT

GUN STARTS REMO 2438131 Bay Stallion 04/01/1985 1996 Breeding Season Incentive Fund Stallion; Genetic Typed
Dam- MERRY JESSIE 0573240 Damsire- JESSIE JAMES 0002257
Show: 11/1992 Open- H- .0 P- 17.5 Amateur- H- .0 P- .0 Youth- H- .0 P- .0
National Reining Horse Association: $ 2,332.23 Earned thru 07/06/1991
Achievement: 1991 OPEN PERFORMANCE REGISTER OF MERIT

THE FASTEST START 2415772 Bay Gelding 06/01/1985
Dam- LADY SUGAR PIU 0970658 Damsire- SUGAR JAGUAR 0721436
Show: 11/1998 Open- H- .5 P- 1.5 Amateur- H- .0 P- .0 Youth- H- .5 P- 199.0
Novice Amateur- P- .0 Novice Youth- P- 138.5 Eq w/ Disabilities- P- .0
Achievement: 1995 YOUTH PERFORMANCE REGISTER OF MERIT
Achievement: 1992 YOUTH PERFORMANCE REGISTER OF MERIT
Achievement: 1990 YOUTH PERFORMANCE REGISTER OF MERIT

GUN STARTS TOP GUN 2570983 Deceased Sorrel Gelding 04/01/1986
Dam- THIRD LIZ 0906454 Damsire- CONTINENTAL KING 0081640
Show: 03/2001 Open- H- .0 P- 34.0 Amateur- H- .0 P- 23.5 Youth- H- .0 P- 22.0
National Reining Horse Association: $ 11,122.99 Earned thru 06/27/1999
Achievement: 1993 OPEN QUALIFIED SR REINING WORLD SHOW
Achievement: 1993 YOUTH PERFORMANCE REGISTER OF MERIT
Achievement: 1993 OPEN PERFORMANCE REGISTER OF MERIT
Achievement: 1990 AMATEUR PERFORMANCE REGISTER OF MERIT

HANKS TOP GUN 2573322 Bay Gelding 04/01/1986
Dam- HEATHER HANK 1540620 Damsire- BROTHER HANK 0422259
Show: 07/1995 Open- H- .0 P- 5.5 Amateur- H- .0 P- 10.0 Youth- H- .0 P- 19.5
National Reining Horse Association: $ 366.31 Earned thru 09/19/1993
Achievement: 1995 AMATEUR PERFORMANCE REGISTER OF MERIT
Achievement: 1991 YOUTH HIGH POINT REINING 8th PLACE
Achievement: 1991 YOUTH PERFORMANCE REGISTER OF MERIT
 

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Hello,

I recently placed a deposit on a 3 week old goldendoodle pup. I just found out that the dad (standard poodle) is AKC registered and the mom (golden retriever) is APRI registered. Should I be concerned? I've read the posts in this thread, and am still so confused as to whether or not it really does matter. We are simply wanting to have a puppy come join our lives as a family pet, and lifelong family member. We aren't interested in breeding or showing this dog. (We are mainly interested in the breed.) Anyway...I just thought I'd throw this out there and see what kind of advice or suggestions I may get. Some have said to "run" and others seem to say it shoudn't matter. Help!

Thanks!
 
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