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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
What can you guys tell me about apple head Chihuahuas?

This guy just brought in a dog that looked like a mix to me, it was very very leggy and was a blue color. I asked if it was a IG mix with Chi and he told me it was a purebred applehead Chi. Thats one of those ridiculous non recognized made up varieties right? What made me mad is he made a comment about the dogs "boyfriend" being back at home. So he surely a BYB. I wanted to call him on his BS but i didn't know any facts.
 

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Applehead Chi are the 'usual' Chi. Deerhead Chi look like the Taco Bell dog. Deerheads have longer noses and not as rounded skulls.They both come from the same litters sometimes, but Appleheads are more popular in shows, though they often have a molera (soft spot in their head) and are harder to give birth to.

If it's a badly bred Chi, it won't matter what shape of head it has, though. Any badly-bred example of a breed can end up looking pretty wierd.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Applehead Chi are the 'usual' Chi. Deerhead Chi look like the Taco Bell dog. Deerheads have longer noses and not as rounded skulls.They both come from the same litters sometimes, but Appleheads are more popular in shows, though they often have a molera (soft spot in their head) and are harder to give birth to.

If it's a badly bred Chi, it won't matter what shape of head it has, though. Any badly-bred example of a breed can end up looking pretty wierd.
So they are a "better" rarer Chi? Everytime i've heard som'one say applehead they are very pompous about it, like it was som'how a important dog that god forbid i didn't recognize. This dog in question was at least ten lbs.
 

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They are the 'preferred' type of Chi, yes. Deerheads are considered inferior by most show folks. Of course, both types have their fans.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
They are the 'preferred' type of Chi, yes. Deerheads are considered inferior by most show folks. Of course, both types have their fans.
interesting.... thanks for clarifying for me. I just had never heard the term and suddenly the last three Chis i'lve seen have been "apple head". Didn't know if it was a gimick, like "teacup and mini" are.:)
 

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I found a good pic of both types together for comparison:



Deerheads tend to be taller, too. It is true though, that reputable breeders will not make a big deal about their dogs being appleheads, because that's the 'correct' style of head, and it should go without saying that their dogs have it. Breeders that overuse the term all over their sites are generally BYBs.
 

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I have an apple head and a deer I prefer the deer they look gorgeous and are graceful when they run they are so much like a deer ,, the apple heads are cute too but like I said I think the deer type is more attractive ... Pics of my deer chi Brindle chi and my Gray applehead.. I love them for them not because of their heads ha but I can tell you they are great dogs very protective over me I love them both The first 2 pics is my apple head Spice and Princeton my deer chi is the last 2 pics
 

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One thing I think is interesting is thta most of the dogs illustrating 'deer' in this thread are not too terribly extreme.

http://www.ceegees-chihuahuas.com/ - here's a show breeder of Chihs. You'll notice her dogs have heads like those described in the breed standard.

Compare this - http://losangeles.kijiji.com/c-Pets-Dogs-puppies-for-sale-CHIHUAHUA-DEER-TYPE-W0QQAdIdZ35401023
A dog being marketed as 'deer type'

I've not seen very many sound-moving deer type, probably because there are no reputable breeders breeding them.

If you like the longer legs and head? Get a minpin!0
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
I found a good pic of both types together for comparison:



Deerheads tend to be taller, too. It is true though, that reputable breeders will not make a big deal about their dogs being appleheads, because that's the 'correct' style of head, and it should go without saying that their dogs have it. Breeders that overuse the term all over their sites are generally BYBs.
Thats what i figured, seeing as the three i've seen have looked nothing alike. The applehead ones look like little so funny to me, My chi/doxie X has a long nose so i guess im just used to looking at her.



Dogstar, thanks for the links. The difference is very obvious now. The dogs on the breeder site are actually quite gorgeous!
 

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It bothers me so much how people have to put some made up label on their breed of dog just for marketing purposes and act like it makes them special.

I have people acting all impressed and calling Cody a "Teacup Pom"... and then I can't help but explain to them that he is a standard sized Pom, and teacup is a made up marketing term :rolleyes: I just get so annoyed by all this micro-mini-teacup-applehead-pocket dog-blah blah blah!
 

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I agree ,, IT doesnt make much difference to me I love my dogs whatever they are called teacups and applehead and deer and a toy Yorkie oh please I love them so much I kiss them all day If I was out stranded with my dogs in the dessert Im give the last bit of food to them first ha. I feel that much for them. I adore them and they make me happy just like my kids same thing. I think they are adorable
 

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One thing I think is interesting is thta most of the dogs illustrating 'deer' in this thread are not too terribly extreme.

http://www.ceegees-chihuahuas.com/ - here's a show breeder of Chihs. You'll notice her dogs have heads like those described in the breed standard.

Compare this - http://losangeles.kijiji.com/c-Pets-Dogs-puppies-for-sale-CHIHUAHUA-DEER-TYPE-W0QQAdIdZ35401023
A dog being marketed as 'deer type'

I've not seen very many sound-moving deer type, probably because there are no reputable breeders breeding them.
Thanks for the links! I was scouring Google for a really obvious Deerhead and it's actually pretty hard to find a good picture of one. =)
 

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One thing I think is interesting is thta most of the dogs illustrating 'deer' in this thread are not too terribly extreme.

http://www.ceegees-chihuahuas.com/ - here's a show breeder of Chihs. You'll notice her dogs have heads like those described in the breed standard.

Compare this - http://losangeles.kijiji.com/c-Pets-Dogs-puppies-for-sale-CHIHUAHUA-DEER-TYPE-W0QQAdIdZ35401023
A dog being marketed as 'deer type'

I've not seen very many sound-moving deer type, probably because there are no reputable breeders breeding them.

If you like the longer legs and head? Get a minpin!0
I totally disagree with this. The deer type Chi's are VERY sound moving and actually are quite athletic. I have one and he is positively amazing. His temperment is NOTHING like a Min Pin and that's the way I like it (no offense to Min Pin lovers).

The apple head is being bred to the extreme imo and is just one more show rring trend disaster waiting to happen. The apple heads ususally have trouble with delivery, they can have more breathing problems (their noses are simply disappearing!), they have the molera that doesn't close leaving them open to injury.

I hate to say it, but some of the healthiest, best tempered, most athletic and sturdy little Chi's I have ever seen didn't quite meet the "desired" show ring standard.

This - as far as I'm concerned - is the perfect Chi head! Something between the show ring extreme apple head and the backyard deer type - Normal nose, slightly rounded head.
 

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Kelliope, that dog may be a "deer head" but you can clearly see that compared to the other example of a deer headed Chi... the one in your picture LOOKS like a Chi should look. I don't think the other one looked quite like a Chi. I think even though he isn't an "apple head" he looks like a standard Chi to me... very cute!

The same thing actually goes on with the Poms, except instead of "deer head" it's fox faced, and instead of "apple head" it's called a pansy or teddy bear face. They tend to favor extreme pansy faces in the show ring, and most byb Poms are foxy looking. I think Cody is a nice middle ground, He is more on the pansy faced side of the scale, but doesn't have that ran into a wall look like some of them do.
 

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Chicster, yes I agree with you. Your Pom looks right to me. I know what you mean about the show type.

It just makes me so sad when they ruin a perfectly great breed by breeding for extremes of features. :(
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Kelliope, that dog may be a "deer head" but you can clearly see that compared to the other example of a deer headed Chi... the one in your picture LOOKS like a Chi should look. I don't think the other one looked quite like a Chi. I think even though he isn't an "apple head" he looks like a standard Chi to me... very cute!

The same thing actually goes on with the Poms, except instead of "deer head" it's fox faced, and instead of "apple head" it's called a pansy or teddy bear face. They tend to favor extreme pansy faces in the show ring, and most byb Poms are foxy looking. I think Cody is a nice middle ground, He is more on the pansy faced side of the scale, but doesn't have that ran into a wall look like some of them do.

do you have an example of a fox face versus a non? I had som'one ask once if my pom was a "fox face". All poms look foxy to me to some degree.
 

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Here's some pom champions -
http://www.islandpomeranians.com/champs.html

here's some BYB poms - she doesn't market her dogs as 'fox-faced' and they're sort of in the middle of the road http://chrismarkkennels.com/Poms/poms.html

I'd put Chico closer to the baby-faced end of the spectrum, but he's still pretty moderate. And there *are* moderate dogs in the ring out there- DreamWeaver has some dogs I like. And so does GeeBear - http://www.geebearspoms.com/boys.html.

What's confusing with Poms is the whole German Spitz issue. In Germany, Poms are registered as Zwergspitz (dwarf spitz). They're NOT interbred as a general rule. (And internationally, it looks like the English and American-bred dogs and dogs of that type do more winning.) A lot of poorly bred poms though, revert back to the larger spitz types- not just in size, but in the less extreme head features. The earliest 'Pomeranians' in the English-speaking world (pictured in Gainsborough's paintings, in the late 18th century) were actually Spitz- 30 pound companion/farm dogs, brought to England by Queen Charlotte from her native Germany. The modern 4-6 pound Pom was popularized by Queen Victoria in the second half of the 19th century, and the types have diverged since then. So while a hundred and fifty odd years separate the Poms from the Spitz, thst's not really all that long in the grand scheme of things.
 

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These are the two best extremes I could find with a quick google search.

Pansy:


Foxy:


This is Cody's dad (on the left), who he will probably look just like when he's grown. More middle of the road type face:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
:)hmm, interesting. Mines som'where in the middle, good thing she was a free dog....:)
 
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