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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Due to some changes at the moment I am unable to do raw the way I used to so in the meantime have been looking at some other options. The dehydrated mixes seem rather simple, just the mix, water and protein.

Just wondering what the pros and cons are vs doing the 80/10/10 diet I was doing before. I would still add in a rmb once in a while.

These are the two two I've been looking at:

Honest Kitchen:
Carrots, Organic Flaxseed, Parsnips, Peas, Celery, Organic Coconut, Pumpkin, Chard, Organic Kelp, Marjoram, Garlic, Tricalcium Phosphate, Choline Chloride, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Potassium Iodide, Potassium Chloride, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Copper Amino Acid Chelate, Sodium Selenite, Thiamine Mononitrate.

Volhard NDF2: (suggests using 80/20 beef)

Oats, Wheat Bran, Chicken Liver, Wheat Germ, Calcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Brewers Yeast, Dried Apples, Carrots, Molasses, Eggs, Buckwheat Groats, Safflower Oil, (Omega 6), Cod Liver Oil (Omega 3), Apple Cider Vinegar, Parsley, Kelp, Alfalfa, Burdock Root, Dandelion Root, Rosemary, Garlic, Ginger, Yucca, Diatomaceous Earth, Vitamin C (Calc. Ascorbate), Vitamin E, Natural Mix Tocopherols (Vitamin E), Montmorillonite. Fermented Probiotics: Lactobacillus acidophilus, Bacillus Subtilis, Bifidobactrium, Bifidobacterium longum, Enterococcus faecalis, Schidigera, Chelated Zinc, Manganese, Iron, Copper and Cobalt, Vitamin B Complex consisting of - Choline Chloride, Niacin, Riboflavin, d Calcium Pantothenate, Thiamin, Pyridoxine, Biotin, Vitamin A and D 3, Selenium.
 

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They are good products but I've never used any or even looked into which one I would use if I couldn't feed a grind or RMB and the rest of it. My dogs adore veggies and have much larger poops when they get into a lot. In apple season teeth get dirty even staying on a raw diet with bones to chew on so there's that.

Agree with Volhard, ground beef is the best and that's the fattiest I would consider using.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
yea I wasn't sure how it compared to a prey model diet which just consists of the meat, organs and bone. These, particular the Volhard one which I'm leaning towards includes grains, minerals, vitamins, etc which I'm guessing are good additives but are they necessary? I haven't found much reviews or people on forums on that particular diet which I was a little surprised as it's been around for so long. But if I type in raw prey model diet for example, there's tons of info...

Also for the NDF2 it just shows beef as the protein so wasn't sure if other proteins were needed as I was used to constantly rotating with a variety.

Then they also sell something called Endurance (which again I couldn't find many reviews on from other people/forums) which essentially you just add to commercial kibble as a supplement and is said to help overcome nutritional imbalances: I've considered this as well for now but again can't seem to find much info on success from people:

Ingredients: Chicken Liver Dried, Wheat Bran, Wheat Germ, Brewer’s Yeast Dried,Calcium Carbonate, Dried Apple, Calcium Phosphate,
Cod Liver Oil, Parsley, Apple Cider Vinegar, Alfalfa, Dried Kelp, Dandelion Root, Garlic, Calcium Ascorbate (Vitamin C), Ginger, Natural Mixed Tocopherols, Citric Acid, Rosemary Extract.
 

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If I was stuck feeding from the grocery store I'd go with prey model. It isn't as easy with a little dog or a gulper but it works fine. You'd give bony meat once a day with meat and organ for the other meal. If I fed my little dogs from the grocery store I'd buy whole chicken and would be cutting the back into 2" sections, dividing the wings into 3 bits and so on. I might even save the thighs and drumsticks for the humans to cook and eat. If dog likes bone too much then clamp locking pliers on it or give it some whacks with a hammer or mallet to break up the bone and make it larger. Check your area for ethnic markets to find liver and other organs if your local market doesn't carry them. I'd use ground beef as the main other meat. If you can get a hold of Steve Brown's Unlocking the Canine Ancestral Diet you will see that chicken and beef is fine.

If I was stuck with meat and no bony meat or organ then I'd add in bone meal and figure out the minerals and vitamins needed to balance the diet but I have Monica Segal's Optimal Nutrition which has NRC numbers so I can calculate what my dog needs and make up a powder of good quality human supplements to suit.

Or Balance IT will do it for you. I just looked and they sell a carnivore blend. The clunkiest website ever, here is an overview of why. This was free so go look and see what you think. I know there are other supplements like this one but you'd have to find them yourself. Balance IT has been around for a while and was developed by vets to make just about any diet needed for any health condition so seems quite a nice source. I would hope my home made mix would be quite close to what they sell.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
so I just found this mix from a local supplier. I wanted to make it easiest as possible (due to some temporary mobility issues) that is why I thought the base mix + protein would be easiest. However when I found below was available as a ground mix, I believe the only other thing I would need to add it more organ as he does great on 15% bone! And there's so many proteins so this is great right so long as his stomach can handle it? He's pretty much had every protein listed here so I know he can tolerate it just never gave all in one as a grind so not sure if there's a difference?

(approximately 15% bone):

beef--majority of the make up. 40%
Beef Tripe 10%
Whole Fish 5%
Pork 10%
Turkey 10%
Chicken 5%
Duck 5%
Whole Rabbit 5%
Lamb 5%
Veggie/fruit mix 2%
Beef organ mix 3% (heart, liver, kidney)
 

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My dogs are fine on a multi protein grind, doubt it would be a problem. You might substitute it in over a couple days just in case. I'd try to get some beef liver to supplement is all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks! Do you think one is better over the other, the ndf2 w/beef vs the grind with all the proteins using the 80/10/10?
 

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I'm not a fan of expensive dried veggies and would go with the grind but it's your call, dog will likely love either food.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks! I think I'll stick with the grind. He normally gets eggs, yogurt, acv, salmon oil (although since the grind has fish maybe I can eliminate this?), coconut oil, and pumpkin...so it seems like he'll be getting the supplements he needs in addition to just the raw then.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I will be adding in some rmb's and things for more chewing time. Should I worry much about the bone content if I'm only giving them say a couple times a week?

Some things available to me that I was thinking might be good additions were chicken/duck necks and feet (he wouldn't touch turkey necks, not sure why), beef/pork neck bones, chicken frames
 

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The poultry will be completely eaten and I'd be wary of feeding them then feeding the grind with bone. Usually I'll give a meaty meal if there's been a good sized bit of poultry eaten that day. Scrambled eggs work fine. Sometimes pork gets eaten sometimes not. I just watch and give meat the following meal if lots of bone has been eaten. Usually not much beef bone is eaten here and I go straight to the bony grind for the following meal.
 

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i feed my dog 5 star food but to tell the truth growing up my dogs had gravy train and lived to be 16 yrs old just saying lol
 
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