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Discussion Starter #1
EDIT: Crap wrong section. Mods, please move to training section.

Not going to a special school, but at home? Im thinking about buying that padded sleeve and seeing how far can I go with Tuz :cool:
 

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We've begun some basic bite work with Roxy. I figure once we get this obedience thing figured out, she'll get her CD, possibly CDX, then we'll really concentrate on some SchH and FR sport with a few trainers I've been speaking with.

I'm trying to keep it light and fun right now, so it's not too serious. We're working on a few things; arm bites (holds, releases), tackles (knocking down), and a guarding command (watching, attacking on her own if the subject moves).

We're using purely positive reinforcement, because she's got a tonne of drive already for it, and her obedience is strong, so there's no real need for nothing other than verbal guidance.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
We've begun some basic bite work with Roxy. I figure once we get this obedience thing figured out, she'll get her CD, possibly CDX, then we'll really concentrate on some SchH and FR sport with a few trainers I've been speaking with.

I'm trying to keep it light and fun right now, so it's not too serious. We're working on a few things; arm bites (holds, releases), tackles (knocking down), and a guarding command (watching, attacking on her own if the subject moves).

We're using purely positive reinforcement, because she's got a tonne of drive already for it, and her obedience is strong, so there's no real need for nothing other than verbal guidance.
How is she reacting to the training?
 

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Any bitework really isn't something to be toyed with unless you REALLY know what you're doing and have been doing it for years. It's a lot more complicated than people think (I've learned some really cool stuff by having people talk to me after I've worked my dog).

But if y'all already know that, I'll just shut up xD
 

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I hope you, guys are using a decoy/helper when it comes to bite work. I would not try to train my dog by myself when it comes to personal protection or guard dog training. Because your dog must have sound nerves and the drives and you have to know which drive to get your dog into and know how to control it and change the drives. Now you can train your dog the beginnings of the training phase. And there are many different bite sleeves and you have to know which one to use. You have your puppy sleeves, intermediate sleeves, advanced sleeves, agitation sleeves, sport sleeves, police training sleeves and hidden sleeves.

http://leerburg.com/pdf/drivesofprotectiontraining.pdf
 

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Yeah, I'd sure hate be be wearing a puppy sleeve if Molly's Eagle were comin at me (25 x SchH III...you'd lose your arm xD)!
 

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Roxy loves it and I've noticed in the past few weeks, close to a few months of just toying around with it, her issues with strangers has gotten better.

A breeder I had been speaking with who competes mainly in ring sports with some SchH had told me that getting her involved in bitesports would help, but I'd thought it was a crazy idea. But I see now, that it worked for Roxy.

In some situations, where she would normally react, she looks to me. Working on controlling that drive and aggressiveness has helped in other areas of our life together. Trully neat to see, my trainer didn't believe it either until there were a few situations at school where Roxy normally would've reacted, but instead looked to me, for either the "go ahead" or "nope, stay", lol.

I'm not sure what exactly you mean gsd's... I, better than anyone else can control my dog. A helper, which I do have, isn't in control of my dog, I am. And that's the only way it'll ever be.

We haven't done any actual excercises yet, like the left over bag and attacker, or anything with blinds, it's mainly on the commands, focus and attention.

Just like everything else we do, we always get a good head start. Everything that we're doing has been laid out by a man with decades of experience. He knows when Roxy comes for lessons she'll be far ahead of most of the dogs he encounters.
 

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I'm not sure what exactly you mean gsd's... I, better than anyone else can control my dog. A helper, which I do have, isn't in control of my dog, I am. And that's the only way it'll ever be.
Experienced decoy/helper knows what drive to put your dog into for protection phase (bite work). Knows when to put your dog in prey drive knows when to put your dog in defence drive and know how to control these drives. The decoy/helper has knowledge and experience in reading and act accordingly to teach the dog how to bite full and hard on the sleeve or body suite, safely and with confidence. When a dog is in prey drive all it sees is a game and the decoy/helper is the toy the decoy/helper knows that the dog is in prey drive so he/she switch the prey drive to defence drive (this is the dogs serious side) this is when the dog start to protect the handler and its self. When you do not know what you are doing you can very easily break a dog. If you do to much defence drive you can cause the dog to be insecure and cause avoidance in turn cause the dog to not respond confidently. It also can cause conflict between dog and owner (handler) when doing your own helper work.

I have been doing this for quite sometime I even get help from Chet Roberts who owns Carolina Training Center.
 

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Ahh!! Now I understand! I didn't know what exactly you were getting at, but now I understand.

Not neccessarily, "in control" rather "manipulating" the situation.

Thanks for the explanation. I thought you meant, as in the helper/decoy was controlling the dog, as in giving commands! LOL. That would be interesting... Ha ha!

Seeing as we're still keeping it more focused on play and command, we haven't gotten too far where we're really manipulating the situation. Rather, I and my helper knows how to keep her up and driven.

Really the only thing we're doing that requires intense prey drive is the tackle. And seeing as my helper right now, is my bf, he knows quite well how to get Roxy up and what she likes, what she doesn't like, her body language etc.
 

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"Really the only thing we're doing that requires intense prey drive is the tackle. And seeing as my helper right now, is my bf, he knows quite well how to get Roxy up and what she likes, what she doesn't like, her body language etc."

But who is teaching the dog to bite properly? With a full mouth? The decoy is the one who wears the sleeve, and they're the ones that reward for proper grips, not you.

I would NEVER know whether or not my dog was gripping with a full mouth if it weren't for Matt (Strauss' decoy). My dog can LOOK like he's gripping full, but Matt will tell me if Strauss is just biting with his canines.

Unless Strauss flies off the grip, I don't know if he's biting properly, because I rely on Matt to tell me that (and properly reward my dog for it)
 

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My bf and I aren't dog retarded.

Vey rarely does she get a lousy grip, but when she does, he makes her lose it, on purpose. She gets mildly verbally corrected, agitated than another chance. Heavily rewarded for good grips. Some with weak, low drive dogs can't do it this way, I can. My dog's intense with this work, and her correction, in her mind, is losing the bite.

The tackle I'm teaching her doesn't involve any biting either... It's a simple take down, no bite. Eventually the guard command will be combined with the take down, but as of now, it's two separate excercises for her.

ETA- As I said before, we're working mainly on cue words, not even so much on drive and intensity. In fact I'm dumbing her down a lot. I just want her to have a the commands down, before we work seriously in the sport, where we will be focusing on drives with a decoy that she will NOT like or be "playing" with. I'm keeping it positive, introducing the commands, then we'll start working seriously on drives and intensity. I've had some tell me that lowering her drive and intensity isn't good, but for our future instructor, who's met Roxy, he's advised me it will lay down a better foundation for the commands. Getting her drive back up won't be hard. lol
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Some good answeres here, thanks guys :)

Alpha, how much time do you put into this type of training and how much longer before you pass the 'cue words' phase and move on to physical things? How do you know she is ready?
 

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We just mess around, twice a day, maybe three times, short sessions, maybe 10-15 minutes each. So in total around 45 minutes. Sometimes less depending on whether she had agility, obedience, swimming or a long hike! LOL

We won't be working seriously for a long while. I want to get her registered for obedience work, at least get a few titles there, then we'll go to a trainer. As others have said, you don't want to over do it by yourself, having a knowledgable trainer is nothing but a GOOD thing! A lot can go wrong if you jump in feet first without anyone helping you along.

The excercises we're doing as I said, have all been laid out for me by our future instructor who I speak with on at least a weekly basis about what's going on in general. If the obedience thing doesn't work out, I imagine we'll start taking lessons this summer.

We could just start lessons now, but with more than 3 hours of dog lessons a week as it is, I think we'd be stretching ourselves pretty thin. That's not including the training at home and the work I'm doing with some other dogs. My obedience trainer is still hoping for a CKC register or last resort NAMBR for our obedience too, so she doesn't want me to give that up yet! LOL

Once she's got the simple excercises we're doing down, to be honest, if we're not taking lessons, I'll just give it a break. I don't know enough about this particular sport, the finer points, techniques etc. to do much more, especially once it's time to start upping her drives, working on fight drives, which we aren't working with now at all.
 

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Doberman_07, it sounds like you are still relatively new to training dogs, specifically bitework with dogs. Because of this I would strongly reocmmend you do NOT do thistype of training yourself. Its so easy to mess up the training and completely screw up your dog. I highly recommend finding a good trainer and club and getting involved that way. It is much safer and with something this "tricky" its better to have someone who knows what they are doing right there to show you and explain to you what you have to do rather than trying to interpret words on a screen....At times when people ask me for sledding help, I request we speak over the phone rather than e-mails and PMs because when it comes to understanding thngs, its easier on the phone and way easier in person than on the computer. Too easy to misinterpret something on the computer.
 

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Any bitework really isn't something to be toyed with unless you REALLY know what you're doing and have been doing it for years. It's a lot more complicated than people think (I've learned some really cool stuff by having people talk to me after I've worked my dog).

But if y'all already know that, I'll just shut up xD
I agree with this 100%! Bite work should be trained under the guidance of a trainer ONLY! I do prefer +r for this, but would never try to train it myself.
 
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