[Petsrkids]

Let me just say that I am not asking for commentary on the dangers or benefits of having intact dogs. I am considering getting a dog and having ovary sparing spay or vasectomy, regardless of anybody’s opinions.

What I would like to know is, what is it like to own same sex dogs that are intact? I have been agonizing over whether I should get a male or female because at some point, it is my intention to have two dogs. If I opt for either of the surgeries that I mentioned, then I’d have to have two of the same sex dogs because I don’t have facilities to separate a male and female, when she would be in heat.
I currently live in the suburbs. I don’t have acres and acres of land, so keeping my dogs far from other dogs would be impossible.
I also plan on doing obedience, agility, and maybe some other things as well.
I have missed out on several litters because I cannot decide and, this is largely due to the fact that I have no idea what it’s like to live with mutkiple intact dogs.

 

[Jen2010]

I don't have experience with owning two same-sex dogs, but I think generally speaking the worst combination is two females. So if you were going to get two of the same sex you might be better to get males. I don't know how being intact would change their behaviour though.

 

[Lillith]

It depends largely on the dogs involved. There are certain breeds that are known for same sex aggression (such as Dobermans) issues, which you should avoid. I know intact females who live together and rarely if ever have issues, I know intact males who live together and rarely if ever have issues, and they're all different breeds and ages. I do know two male intact Dobermans who have to live on separate floors of their house, though, because they fight so badly. One is a senior, and the other is around 3 years old, I believe.

 

[LeoRose]

It depends on the breed(s) of the dogs, as well as the individual dogs themselves. As Lillith said, Doberman males are known for same sex aggression. In other breeds, SSA is more common in bitches. I currently have two bitches, a seven year old German Shepherd and a five year old pittie. I would say that 99.99% of the time, they get along. However, they are not left alone unsupervised for long periods of time, are fed separately, and if I think that playtime is getting too rough, I will intervene.

Just a note, a bitch who has had an OSS will still come into season, and although she will likely be less attractive to males than a fully intact bitch, will still need to be watched to make sure she's not accidentally bred.

 

[Petsrkids]

I’m talking about either 2 Standard Poodles or a Standard Poodle and a Lagotto. I’ve asked breeders but don’t really get a good answer.

 

[PatriciafromCO]

always had intact same sex and mixed groups. There are breeds that do better then other breeds for getting along together, and there are individuals in breeds not known to do well with each other that do get along.

Can see why it's hard to get an answer of what your out come will be.

some individuals do well together when raised together, and some do better because they are several years older fully mature when a new pup is brought in to the family.

Main thing is find a breeder that is raising their dogs the way you want your dogs to be like. that is where I would start. I have a CC from a breeder that her dogs of all ages ran together in a play area and was planning to purchase another CC from a breeder who also has their kennel running and spending time in a full range of ages when they pups. One of the other breeder whose experience in their dogs is that they do not get along and does not run them together at any age I would not consider to purchase from.

doesn't make it 100% guaranteed.. but it is where I would start

 

[parus]

Poodles are such a huge pool of dogs that you really need to look at the specific lines of the animals you're considering. My puppy's breeder has several bitches living harmoniously together, but the # 1 thing she breeds for (after excluding known genetic and orthopedics defects) is amiable temperament. My standard poodle pup (9 mo) recently realized he's a boy, but he hasn't displayed any dog aggression regardless of reproductive status. Of course, we haven't seen his adult personality yet. OTOH a friend has a well-bred, well-trained standard poodle bitch that eats other bitches for breakfast.

 

[parus]

I'd say just get a dog you like that suits your lifestyle, then make the decision later about what type of second dog (if any) to get and what you're going to do about reproduction control in response to how things are shaping up. You can't really plan out every little thing, because the unexpected can occur. You might find that one dog is more than enough for you, in any case. Or you might end up with a dog that needs a traditional neuter (e.g. a cryptorchid) even if you'd have preferred a vasectomy. Lots of variables.

 

[Kyllobernese]

I have had good luck having multiple females although the two little males I have right now do get along most of the time, one is 11 years and the other 14 years so they have been together for a long time. Both were intact up to when the ten year old was about 8 when I got him neutered as he started marking and it stopped that.

Right now I have four females, two are spayed, two are still intact as they are young still. The one intact female who is straight Poodle is really bossy and although has never tried to start a fight, I do keep her separate from my oldest spayed female when I am not home so that she can't pick on her.

All in all, I have had the best luck with two females, spayed or intact. It really depends on the dogs though so hard to be sure they will get along.

 

[3GSD4IPO]

the issue is multiple females. IF the two dogs decide to jockey for pecking order position and you end up with bitch fights.. they will fight to the death. Being intact or not makes NO DIFFERENCE with Bitch fights and the dog lower on the pecking order is usually the one who starts it.

What can cause fights in males is any female coming in heat. If you have ovary sparing spay the bitch will come into season still and the males will fight over her and being intact or makes little difference.

I don't know why you would do a vasectomy on male dogs. You are paying attention to your dogs and you can have males and never breed them. I had many male dogs over the years. Never neutered them and they never bred anything. Save your money.. just let the dog be intact. I say this as a suggestion.

Females I would spay totally due to heats and ovary sparing spay females still come in heat and still attract males and still leave a scent trail when they pee. If you go for a walk leaving your house with the female is in heat any loose male dog will follow the scent right back to your house.

I DO wait until age 2 or 3 to spay.

There is no need to .

 

[Petsrkids]

How did you manage intact males when a female was in heat? I don’t mean your own females. I mean, if there was a neighborhood dog or even a dog you encountered on a walk?

 

[3GSD4IPO]

How did you manage intact males when a female was in heat? I don’t mean your own females. I mean, if there was a neighborhood dog or even a dog you encountered on a walk?

I had no issue with neighborhood dogs because everyone kept their dogs home. My dog ONLY went out on a leash. I walked at odd hours so I did not see people and I broke the scent trail by loading the dog up and driving somewhere else and walking the dog.. loading her back up and coming home. I carried a cattle prod in case of aggressive males but I never saw one.

If you have a female intact in heat the safest thing is NO time outside alone. ALL time in your own BACK yard is ON LEASH. You watch her pee and poop and bring her in and crate her. Yes. For three stinking weeks the dog is hand walked and crated. No walkies... because of other (stupid) people.

We still went to training and all the male dogs were intact. This was training and in my sport females in heat can compete. They go last in a competition.. but when we trained they trained right along side the female in heat. It training and while the dog is working he/she is focused on that and not on breeding. The truth is we had NO PROBLEMS. None.

I find it odd that AKC obedience they do not allow bitches in season (but they are OK in the breed ring). I find it odd that dog clubs bar bitches in season from training. I think it is silly. If your male dog won't stay with you of follow your cue with a bitch in season around then you clearly need to do more training.....

 

[Petsrkids]

So, if you have an intact male, he should be well trained and under control, regardless of whether there are females around in heat?
Is it possible that you could be out in the yard throwing a ball around and a male decides to leap over the fence because he catches the scent of a female?

 

[Kyllobernese]

I guess it really depends whether you are in an area with stray dogs roaming around. I still let my in season females out in my yard but we do not have any stray dogs around and I do keep a close eye on them, never leave them out if I am not at home, but then I have yet to see a stray dog around anywhere although everybody seems to have at least one dog or more.

 

[Canyx]

Yes there is a biological drive for males to mate, but training is training. There is a biological drive to eat too, and most folks can train their dogs to not steal human food. My shepherd is still intact at 2.5 years and he is VERY masculine in many ways. I also work in a shelter where it is not uncommon for females (ex. strays, surrenders) to come into heat before we are able to get them into surgery. I have never had a problem with my male dog on the property. Once, my coworker's lab was in heat and was ~15 feet away behind a door from my dog. No issues. I think he was a little more interested in areas where the female might have peed, but that's about it. In fact, it is even MORE common for the shelter to have intact male dogs awaiting surgery. I've never seen an issue with them 'losing their minds' when we have a female in heat at the same time (granted, shelter life is stressful and such).

I don't doubt that there are dogs who will scale fences and go through great lengths to breed if they can. But I think it's crazy to believe that male dogs are sex-crazed maniacs around females in heat. I mean, entire countries have intact dogs living around each other with no problems.

 

[CptJack]

I had a friend with an intact female use some towels to soak up her bitch in season's pee. We trained around them as distractions. No big deal for him pretty fast.

No, that's not actually a DOG, but we compete in a few venues that allow dogs in heat to compete so getting used to the smell and working around it's important, and it wasn't actually all that hard.

 

[Pacificsun]

I'm totally confused. If spaying neutering is in the picture for you, why is living with 2 intact dogs pertinent, other than out of curiosity? (No ill-will meant). Just am not understanding the point of the inquiry itself. I know from Breeder's experience, males are never neutered (unless they're retired). Even in personal homes of limited space, they're crated and exercised separately. The heat cycle is about 3 weeks. Yes, it does jack up their up hormones. Females "can" be a little more "bitchy." Males a little more territorial. But much of it depends on the personality of the dog itself. As is innately dominant or not. For a direct example, in a normal sized house (just backyard) but no dog run, my friend exercised 3 bitches together. They interacted as they always would, with the more dominant one running the show anyway. I've also grown up with male (intact) dogs (of middle size, under 20 lbs) and back in the day owners did not spend money on neutering. Only spaying. And my intact male dog was best friends with our next door neighbor's intact male (of the same breed). For 16 yrs. and never had so much as a squabble over anything. I believe it's how they're raised, who they know is in charge of the household, and given that you don't accidentally end up with a "squirrel-y" dog to begin with. I would make sure the breeder understands that you want a compatible puppy (no matter how she/he estimates that personality type, the breeder should know the personality of her lines) so that your second dog will fit nicely into the household. You'll have to know how dominant your original dog is. And whether it prefers company not. Some dogs just don't. So there are lots of factors involved. I'm not sure if any one-size-fits-all response is applicable. Also depends on the breed and size of the dogs. I can not speak to large dogs, and protection dogs. Also makes a big difference whether or not they've ever been bred. And how frequently.

 

[Petsrkids]

How does breeding affect them?

 

[laurelsmom]

< raises hand >

Petsrkids this is a controversial issue and one I have been flamed about elsewhere, so I didn't read the other replies.

I currently have two intact female adolescents and it is no big deal at all. I grew up with multiple bitches (the dogs, not sisters/mother, lol) in the household in the 1970s, so they usually weren't spayed until after their second heat and we had a couple of intentional litters when there were other intact bitches in the household.

I prefer the personality of bitches who have gone through puberty. Yes, it does make a difference. No, men and some women might not notice it or care.

Opposite gender neutered pairs may be ideal, but don't let perfect become the enemy of your own beautiful, messy, amazing adventure called "life". Get your dog when s/he finds you--you've been waiting a long time, doing a lot of research, and have otherwise shown yourself to be an exceptionally responsible person. Your second dog will find you too. The first time I showed up at training practice with TWO puppies, I introduced us as, "This is Laurel, this is Chocolate, and I must be crazy." but after only about six weeks, I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[Pacificsun]

The more they're bred, the more that drive becomes a stronger behavior. Because instinct, opportunity and expectation kicks in. However, I've also seen dogs of opposite sexes at Dog Shows, under control, because that's how they're trained. They're not jumping off of tables and running after (any) dogs. And if that was their temperament, they would not be welcomed. So it just doesn't happen.

Exhibitors have brought in in-heat females for conformation judging. It's not preferred, but does happen. The male and female classes are separated of course. But the male dogs (waiting for their class-call) wait obediently at ring-side. In fact exhibitors actually like that extra spark in personality. Because that would make them more alert, energetic, and aware. But I've never seen one "break-away" and jump another dog in mid-aisle. No doubt it's happened somewhere, just not in my 20 years of experience. It's all about training and control. And (obviously) not leaving your dog unsupervised.

A side note about yards. People should be aware, that any dog can climb (or dig under) any fence, if compelled to do so. I've seen dogs climb 8 foot wooden fences. Unless a dog run is covered, there are never any assurances. Regarding mating or any other circumstance.