Puppy Forum and Dog Forums banner

1 - 10 of 10 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
...I'm amazed at what I can teach 1500 lbs of horse to do in the way of leading quietly, learning Whoa, backing up, yet I'm having so much trouble with a 30 lb dog! :laugh:

Any horse-people who would like to discuss the different approach you need with dogs over horses? I know dogs are much smarter so maybe they are thinking ahead. And also they are predators rather than prey, so that must make a difference in their thought patterns.

I just thought it might be an interesting discussion.

Cinder
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,851 Posts
I think the biggest difference with horses we use avoidance and with dogs we use rewards.

For instance, you apply pressure to the lead and teach the horse the release is when he gives in to the pressure, and gives his head. The dog we lure. Both are rewards, yet different. I don't feel that the horse necessarily wants to please and bond with humans quite like dogs.
I do agree that a big difference is prey/predator.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,406 Posts
I think the biggest difference with horses we use avoidance and with dogs we use rewards.

For instance, you apply pressure to the lead and teach the horse the release is when he gives in to the pressure, and gives his head. The dog we lure. Both are rewards, yet different. I don't feel that the horse necessarily wants to please and bond with humans quite like dogs.
I do agree that a big difference is prey/predator.

I know people who have had excellent results teaching horses to target with a clicker. I also know that some techniques for teaching a horse to lead also work very well on dogs. The TTouch people (Linda Tellington-Jones was first a horse trainer) teach turning away and stroking the leash to get a stuck dog to move (and it works), and Grisha Stewart's "Silky Leash" exercise is based on teaching the dog how to give to pressure.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,851 Posts
I know people who have had excellent results teaching horses to target with a clicker. I also know that some techniques for teaching a horse to lead also work very well on dogs. The TTouch people (Linda Tellington-Jones was first a horse trainer) teach turning away and stroking the leash to get a stuck dog to move (and it works), and Grisha Stewart's "Silky Leash" exercise is based on teaching the dog how to give to pressure.
Some cross over, but the majority of dog training I do doesn't.rely on pressure, or driving away. It is based on the drive of the dog, usually prey.
With horses it is pressure release, or sending out. The reward is release even then.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Wouldn't it be neat if you could teach a dog to longe? It would be a fantastic way to exercise them when you just don't have time for the dog park or a long walk.

Cinder
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,406 Posts
Wouldn't it be neat if you could teach a dog to longe? It would be a fantastic way to exercise them when you just don't have time for the dog park or a long walk.
CoughI'velungedminebeforeandstilldoCough
It's really almost the same. You hold the end of a long lead (or attach it to you some other secure way) make sure the other end is secure on the dog, and start getting your dog to speed up. Use a flirt pole or something else, have them chase it, and there you go. The dog's running, exercising and you're just in the middle ;D
Well, it works with mine at least, because they respond to the sounds you would make for a horse. Kissing or clicking will cause them to speed up, the more you click/kiss, the faster they get. Then 'whoa' or 'easy' brings them down. They also know 'gee' and 'haw'. I grew up around drafts, so these are the things I heard and started using on my dogs xD
Do all dogs speed up to kissing/clicking?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,186 Posts
I've made kissy noises at Kabota. He just looked at me funny.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,851 Posts
Lol, that's a good idea!

I think the main difference is positioning. Being on the horse you use touch, shifting weight, as pressure. Adding word commands, such as whoa, gee, haw, move up etc, for example with wagon teams. I start a young mule to give to pressure of my hand. When I push, naturally mules push back. So they learn the release ( pressure disappearing) by moving away from pressure. Soon they learn to avoid the pressure all together, by adding word commands. This is helpful as usually you are working behind a mule with no physical contact, other than the reins if necessary.

With western pleasure, cues are minimal and quiet, so its a heel turned in, shift in weight, etc. You don't move your hands, or want to give voice commands. Horses have great food drive, but I have yet been able to teach from the saddle using food. Though you can teach hand and voice, the difference in wanting to work in horses vs dogs is different.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,406 Posts
Some cross over, but the majority of dog training I do doesn't.rely on pressure, or driving away. It is based on the drive of the dog, usually prey.
With horses it is pressure release, or sending out. The reward is release even then.
Driving away, like the Monty Roberts stuff? Naw. But because I work with a totally different population of dogs, often dogs with reactivity/shyness issues, knowing how to reward with a release of pressure (BAT for example) is very useful. Also in herding, where the dog IS working in drive, releasing pressure on the dog is primary reward (not food) and how pressure is used on those "prey animals" is a constant consideration for both handler and dog. I've seen some really savvy dogs who instinctively know how to relieve pressure on nervous stock by simply turning their heads way.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
17 Posts
I am! I find that making sure my dog knows how to respond to pressure makes everyday life much, much easier (all of my animals are clutzy and get caught in some very dangerous situations, such as a head stuck in a chair that was MUCH to small for me to ever fathom it possible) and also makes walks so much more enjoyable!

I've also found that having reliable off lead responses from my horse makes life much safer if they happen to (God forbid!) get out of the two fences around my property and into the road. Being able to scream their name and have them come running is a Godsend. It's also nice when you don't want to have to hike down the hill to get them out of the blackberries :)

Lauren
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top