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You know I'm not into punishments and aversives. In fact, I would say that while positive doesn't equal permissive, I am substantially more permissive than you. YOU do things I would be HIGHLY uncomfortable with from an ethical point of view.

But I find some real irony, and not the great kind, in condemning balanced trainers for pointing fingers at other trainers/trainers using other methods and you using a single personal story to do the same thing. Less strong language? Maybe. You certainly didn't accuse them of getting this dog killed, but you did condemn them as abusive.

Dog training, the world of it, has some serious issues. Especially right now. A lot of them come from 'method wars' and an unwillingness or inability to reach across and accept and truly acknowledge and respect that there is no One True Way. There are methods that are more or less suitable for a given dog, a wide variety of skill levels, things that use pain and things that don't, and above all philosophies.

I have a great deal more respect for people who's philosophies align with mine and don't include causing pain for dogs in the name of behavior modification/training, and of course people who have a good, solid, scientific opinion.

But we all have our ways of doing things and things we consider horrible. But if you're going to demand respect and not to be blamed for the failing of trainers sharing your method, maybe don't claim all the messes you're mopping up belong to the 'other side'. Because they don't. At all. Recognizing that at the end doesn't change the irony and hypocrisy of the rest.

And you know I like and respect you but this is just... startling hypocritical. Rant against people promoting corrections and aversives as unnecessary, complain when people claim we're getting dogs killed, and a total misunderstanding of positive methods, yes. But We've got enough in-fighting and demeaning and wars without sinking to that level and engaging in pure hyperbole ourselves.

It's just not useful.
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