Puppy Forum and Dog Forums banner

1 - 10 of 10 Posts

Registered
Joined
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm training my 12 week Coton puppy not to jump up and/or grab my clothes. Eddie is doing really well. During training sessions when he jumps up I now usually just need to say down or point to the ground and he will lie down quickly. I'm now trying to extend the time he lies down before getting a treat by a few seconds each time. My questions are:

1. As soon as I give him a treat for lying down he jumps up on me again. I can usually get him to quickly lie down again but he knows the routine now and I'm wondering if in fact I'm encouraging him to jump up now that he knows the result?

2. Outside our actual training sessions, when he jumps up, how do I handle it? Always more treats?

3. I am concerned with so much training in a day, Eddie's getting a lot of treats. I cut down on his kibble proportionately but worry he's getting more treats than nutritious food though I try to give him very nutritious treats. Is this an issue?

4. Sometimes I use a clicker in my training & sometimes I don't when I can instantly give him a treat. Is this ok or do I have to be consistent with a clicker.

Thanks for any advice & suggestions! 馃惗
 

Registered
Joined
1,726 Posts
At 12 weeks, a puppy has the attention span of a gnat. If that.

1. As soon as you give the first treat, have another treat handy. Putting the treat on the floor between the pup's front legs will encourage them staying down a smidge longer.

2. If he's jumping on you, and you don't want him to, turn away from him. Every time he jumps on you, he gets your back. Once he quits jumping, you can crouch down and give him some attention. If he is mouthing you or your clothes, then redirect him to an approved chew toy so that his mouth is occupied.

3. Use his meals as his training treats. Measure out how much he will get for the day, feed him about a quarter of it for breakfast, and then use the rest of it in training sessions throughout the day. Anything left over gets served as dinner.

4. In order for marker training (also called clicker training, because of the most commonly used marker) to work, the marker must mean that a reward is coming. The marker can be a click, a "Yes", a "Good", a cue to get a toy, whatever, but if the behavior gets marked, then it gets reinforced with a reward.
 

Registered
Joined
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
At 12 weeks, a puppy has the attention span of a gnat. If that.

1. As soon as you give the first treat, have another treat handy. Putting the treat on the floor between the pup's front legs will encourage them staying down a smidge longer.

2. If he's jumping on you, and you don't want him to, turn away from him. Every time he jumps on you, he gets your back. Once he quits jumping, you can crouch down and give him some attention. If he is mouthing you or your clothes, then redirect him to an approved chew toy so that his mouth is occupied.

3. Use his meals as his training treats. Measure out how much he will get for the day, feed him about a quarter of it for breakfast, and then use the rest of it in training sessions throughout the day. Anything left over gets served as dinner.

4. In order for marker training (also called clicker training, because of the most commonly used marker) to work, the marker must mean that a reward is coming. The marker can be a click, a "Yes", a "Good", a cue to get a toy, whatever, but if the behavior gets marked, then it gets reinforced with a reward.
Thank you for your response.
I was mainly giving him kibble as rewards but found he sometimes wasn't as interested and wouldn't engage very long in the session. (I only keep them under 5 mins) The 'treat' (even though very small) rewards seem to keep him much more interested in learning. Should I just forget the treats and hope he's hungry enough that kibble will do?

When I'm not officially training, I turn my back or leave the room (ignore him) when he jumps up. Should I do that in my training sessions too? I turn away but then he doesn't get my cue of 'down' and pointing to the floor. I'm not sure how to incorporate both turning away & giving him the other cues that he responds so well to.

I always give a treat and praise immediately after clicking when using the clicker but sometimes I don't use the clicker and just treat and praise. Is this ok or do I always have to be consistent always clicker ?
 

Registered
Joined
1,726 Posts
First of all, I think we need to make sure that we are both on the same page for the cue you are using. To me, "Down" means "lie down" and "Off" means "don't jump up on me" or else "get off of what you are on".

At 12 weeks, even just five minutes is a long time. A dozen or so small treats is a plenty long enough session. One thing to do is, if he jumps up on you, turn away, and as soon as his feet hit the floor, cues/lure something else.

The order to remember is cue the behavior, mark the behavior, and then reward the behavior. The mark always means that a reward is coming. Clickers are good for early training because they always sound the same, but you will eventually need to start incorporating other makers. I know people who have a dozen (or more) different markers, depending on what the reward is and where the dog will be getting it from.

You can doctor up kibble to make it smell better by taking a hot dog, cutting it up into small pieces, and then microwaving them until they are dry and crunchy. After that, put a few pieces in with that day's kibble, and store the rest in the fridge, using a few bits at a time in the daily kibble container.
 

Registered
Joined
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
First of all, I think we need to make sure that we are both on the same page for the cue you are using. To me, "Down" means "lie down" and "Off" means "don't jump up on me" or else "get off of what you are on".

At 12 weeks, even just five minutes is a long time. A dozen or so small treats is a plenty long enough session. One thing to do is, if he jumps up on you, turn away, and as soon as his feet hit the floor, cues/lure something else.

The order to remember is cue the behavior, mark the behavior, and then reward the behavior. The mark always means that a reward is coming. Clickers are good for early training because they always sound the same, but you will eventually need to start incorporating other makers. I know people who have a dozen (or more) different markers, depending on what the reward is and where the dog will be getting it from.

You can doctor up kibble to make it smell better by taking a hot dog, cutting it up into small pieces, and then microwaving them until they are dry and crunchy. After that, put a few pieces in with that day's kibble, and store the rest in the fridge, using a few bits at a time in the daily kibble container.
This is so helpful - thank you!

;)
I want to clarify that I have my vocab correct: cue is the 'command' like 'down', the marker is the click, the reward is the treat?
Now I say 'good boy' when I give him the treat - should I not say this, or is this in fact a marker when I don't use the clicker?

When you say people "have a dozen (or more) different markers, depending on what the reward is and where the dog will be getting it from", can you elaborate a little on what you mean by that and maybe give me an example?

You're right I do have to be clear about my cues. I initially taught Eddie 'sit' & then 'lie' both which he learned quickly. Now though when I'm teaching 'down' (meaning stop jumping up) he first sits and then quickly lies down. So now I'm not sure if I'm confusing things because all 3 cues often bring about the same behavior? Should I just stick with teaching one cue for several days at a time? He does seem eager to learn but I think I'm getting more confused about how to proceed and combine lessons than he is!

Also, when he jumps up he'll usually grab a piece of my clothing so I need to teach him something like 'leave' or 'drop it' but I'm not sure how to combine it with the 'down' when the behaviors happen at the same time? Its the combination of behaviors & cues that have me confused.

I very much appreciate all your suggestions & wisdom (and patience). And I will definitely use the hot dog mix!
Thanks again!
 

Registered
Joined
1,726 Posts
Yes, cue is a command (or lure or anything else that gets the dog in the desired position), the mark is the clicker or verbal "that's what I want" word(s), and the treat is the reward.

As far as a marker vocabulary goes, these are some examples:

I use these on a regular basis
"Yes" = I will deliver the food to your mouth, and you are free to move
"Good" = I will deliver the food to your mouth, keep doing what you are doing (I usually use this for stays)
"Floor" = I will put the food on the floor/ground between your front feet, keep doing what you are doing (used for down stays)
"Get it" = you are free to chase the treat I'm going to toss

I am working on these, but don't use them regularly
"Dish" = you are free to get the treat in the bowl on the floor/ground (used as a release from a stay, or after a heeling segment)
"Be" = you are free to get the food in the bowl that is on the floor/ground behind you (used as a release from a stay, usually)

Other people I know use different markers for things like "come to me and we will play tug", "chase the toy I'm going to throw", "drop the toy you are playing with, and we will play with the one I'm holding", "bite the decoy" (for bite sports, obviously), and "go do something you want, like swim or chase the squirrel".

In your cue vocabulary, Sit would mean "park your butt on the ground", Lie would mean "park all of you on the ground", and Down would mean "get your paws off of me". Down doesn't need to mean that he sits or lies down, just not have his feet on you.

If he likes to carry toys and play tug, you can use that to your advantage, since if his mouth is full, it's not on you. Teaching him to release the toy for a treat, and then immediately giving the toy back teaches him to trade things, and that you taking something away from him isn't the end of the world.

Leave it and drop it are different from "don't grab my clothes or random body parts". The former requires teaching a form of self restraint, while the latter is usually more a matter of trying to prevent the biting in the first place and redirecting the puppy onto something they are allowed to munch on.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tater33

Registered
Joined
1,744 Posts
LeoRose has great advice! Two additional things to keep in mind with this kind of training: recognize when he's likely to jump and try to cue him to sit before he has the chance, and try to be hyperaware of when he sits INSTEAD of jumping and make a huge fuss over it (well, huge in a way that doesn't accidentally work him up and start him jumping, if you can). Doing both will really help the dog learn that you want JUST a sit, not a jump-sit chain of behaviors.

I often only use the clicker when I'm teaching a new behavior, and then quickly switch to verbal markers like 'good' or 'yes' and praise, because I'm clumsy and can't juggle a clicker and treats and a dog in most situations, especially outside the home. It's totally fine to not always use the clicker in training sessions. This also means you can verbally mark when your dog does something good unexpectedly, outside of training sessions, and then run them to where you keep the treats to reward. We tend to have several 'treat stations' in the apartment so we never have to go far to reward good behavior (plastic or tin containers from various groceries are great for keeping treats fresh when you do this). Many of our treats are actually kibble - we use small breed or cat kibble so we don't overload calories, and because it's not the same food our dogs get as meals, they still find it exciting and rewarding. I have chow hounds though, and this might not work with pickier dogs.
 

Registered
Joined
108 Posts
I don't reccomend giving treats when training "don't jump on me please". Puppy thinks its a game, just turn around and ignore the dog.
 

Registered
Joined
1,744 Posts
@Deacon.dog It's a good demonstration of do what works for you and your dog! I have smaller dogs who are breeds prone to jumping up on two legs, and my youngest especially finds the 'turn away' strategy a fun challenge. He also has a habit - when he's really excited - of charging at us and launching himself feet-first into us, so he requires more active intervention than turn-and-ignore (he's improving, btw, and he's very well managed so he rarely does it to people who aren't us, but he's a teenager and still working on the self control thing).

In our case, being able to cue the dog with the behavior we want him to do instead of jumping has resulted in much faster improvement, and it allows us to much more successfully interrupt particularly rude or dangerous greeting behavior (the charging) when we see it coming.
 

Registered
Joined
4 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Thank you all for these ongoing tips - all very helpful!
Any other advice about training is always welcome.
 
1 - 10 of 10 Posts
Top