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Aggression in 9 Week Old Puppy?

13227 Views 46 Replies 13 Participants Last post by  titiaamor, 
J
So I recently got an Australian Cattle Dog for a pet, a dog I have wanted for a very long time.

I got her at 8 and 1/2 weeks old and the first 4 days went great, she stayed glued to me at all times and walking her was easy as she stayed 1 step behind me. I started training her and it seems as if her attitude has gotten worse, rather than better. I have been following all the tips and advice on establishing myself as the dominant leader.

Sometimes she will come at me with adult dog aggression(which many have said she shouldn't even have at this age). This is not puppy play, or messing around, or a warning. I have seen all these behaviors from her, and this is pure aggression. It is very rare, but she will sometimes do it when I pick her up(which I have to because she often refuses to go down stairs), or she will do it when I have to do a very firm correction(Alpha Rolls etc, as soon as I take her to the ground she challenges me with a fierce growl and tries her best to bite me with full force.

However, I think it is just her nature to be too tough and stubborn for her own good. She absolutely cares not for any corrections. Negative, positive, and forceful, none of them seem to phase her. She absolutely hates going outside because its so hot out, and as soon as I'm outside with her on a leash, she fights it constantly, and none of the tips help, as she never gives me her attention or looks to me for guidance. Inside on a leash she does well, I think she is just overly stressed by the 100 degree weather.

-She will only take a treat if I literally place it in her mouth, which makes it very difficult to guide her behavior by luring her(she really has no interest in food when she is outside).

-Anything like spray bottles, loud noises(tin can w/ items), a firm "NO", a tug on the leash or collar is completely ignored. The dog is absolutely fearless, and anything that would scare her is something that would be big and loud enough to instantly crush her.

-Physical reprimands are met with challenge, however I never allow her to win them, which sometimes gets me bit pretty hard. Sometimes the only way to calm her down is to "alpha roll" her until she concedes. I never have or will strike or swat her, when i say physical reprimands, I refer to the same treatment her mother or litter mates would do.

-Yelling or yiping "OUCH!" only makes her enjoy biting more, since she gets a response out of it, she stopped showing remorse after the first few times she would mouth me, I'm fairly certain she knows she cant actually hurt me that much, and finds the yelling some sort of a game.

While most of these problems aren't really that bad, and aren't even done 100% of the time, I am just concerned they will continue. She trains very well when we are indoors, and it only takes her a few minutes to learn a new command. She knows Stay, Down, Off(stop jumping up on something), Hand Shake, and Roll over on her back, and to Go into her Crate(however this one she will only do with a very high reward treat, anything less she will ignore). Housebreaking is going excellent as well, overall she is doing quite well.

In the end, I am just looking for assurance on her overly aggressive behavior. Everyone who has seen her do it is completely shocked a puppy would act that way.
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Curbside Prophet
jfaust said:
I started training her and it seems as if her attitude has gotten worse, rather than better. I have been following all the tips and advice on establishing myself as the dominant leader.
Click to expand...
Not from DF you haven't.

This is not puppy play, or messing around, or a warning. I have seen all these behaviors from her, and this is pure aggression. ...I have to do a very firm correction(Alpha Rolls etc, as soon as I take her to the ground she challenges me with a fierce growl and tries her best to bite me with full force.
Click to expand...
What has your breeder said about 1) the aggression and 2)your corrective measures?

-She will only take a treat if I literally place it in her mouth, which makes it very difficult to guide her behavior by luring her(she really has no interest in food when she is outside).

-Anything like spray bottles, loud noises(tin can w/ items), a firm "NO", a tug on the leash or collar is completely ignored. The dog is absolutely fearless, and anything that would scare her is something that would be big and loud enough to instantly crush her.

-Physical reprimands are met with challenge, however I never allow her to win them, which sometimes gets me bit pretty hard. Sometimes the only way to calm her down is to "alpha roll" her until she concedes. I never have or will strike or swat her, when i say physical reprimands, I refer to the same treatment her mother or litter mates would do.
Click to expand...
There's a lot here where your reprimands are likely contributing to the behavior. You need not be physical with the dog, and you need to find better motivators(reinforcers).

-Yelling or yiping "OUCH!" only makes her enjoy biting more, since she gets a response out of it, she stopped showing remorse after the first few times she would mouth me, I'm fairly certain she knows she cant actually hurt me that much, and finds the yelling some sort of a game.
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Google "The Bite Stops Here." There are steps you are missing and or not completing.

In the end, I am just looking for assurance on her overly aggressive behavior. Everyone who has seen her do it is completely shocked a puppy would act that way.
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To be honest it's hard to say without seeing the behavior, but nothing you've described sounds beyond puppy-ness.
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J
Thanks for the quick response, I appreciate it. My biggest issue, is in the 100s of articles on puppy/dog training I've read, 6 or so books, and 50ish videos I've watched(all within the last few weeks, as I have tried to prepare as best I could for the puppy's arrival), none of these seem to talk about what happens when it doesn't work.

-Crate training, put dog in crate, leave dog in crate, in a few days dog will no longer cry. Congratulations your dog is now crate trained.

This is basically how most information is given. "if your dog pulls the leash, have them come with a treat and rewards them while the leash is lax, soon your dog will walk on a leash properly". However it doesn't talk about the problem when your dog simply will not come to you for a treat, toy, command or any other enticement.

I feel like I only get 1/2 the information, and its only the best case scenario information.

Curbside Prophet said:
Not from DF you haven't.
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Bit of an assumption, but if you could further elaborate and/or point out mentioned DF information, I would be happy to study it further.(I have actually gone through a number of articles, links, and sites in posts in DF regarding to issues I have been having. I wouldn't have created an account and made my first post on this matter if I did not feel there was valid information available here)

What has your breeder said about 1) the aggression and 2)your corrective measures?
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I have not yet contacted the breeder about this, I will today. Her description of the dogs personality was that of "gentle and sweet", which would be correct until recently(while she is gentle and sweet the majority, it is rather frustrating at times when she gets into a bad mood). My corrective measures come from a variety of well known web articles written and suggested by many experienced and respected ACD breeders/trainers.


There's a lot here where your reprimands are likely contributing to the behavior. You need not be physical with the dog, and you need to find better motivators(reinforcers).
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Could you specify? I only ever touch the dog 2% of the time, and only in very extreme cases(like when she is literally attacking my arm). I will attempt to find better motivators, that which she goes crazy for inside, completely lose all appeal when we are outdoors, so it isn't really so simple a task.

Google "The Bite Stops Here." There are steps you are missing and or not completing.
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I have read, and seen the video over this previously. All of the steps mentioned have been taken. Her puppy mouthing and biting is not the issue, in fact she mouths very gently, aside from the aggressive state in which I have mentioned(which of course is my biggest concern).

To be honest it's hard to say without seeing the behavior, but nothing you've described sounds beyond puppy-ness.
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I agree, I am just trying to find a good level to keep the training at. I know I have to be firm and patient, but not a push over. This is especially true for the breed, which while very intelligent were bred to be very tough and respond to aggression with their own aggression. If they get kicked by a cow, their response is to charge in and bite them even harder on the leg.
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skitty56
You haven't given it nearly enough time, nothing is an instant fix. Give her a few weeks, or even months considering that she is very young.My last pup was 12 weeks or more before we even got out of the driveway with her on the leash, and puppy's bite/mouth/nip for quite a while, they're babies, give her a chance to figure out what you want before punishing her for what you don't.
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Shell
or she will do it when I have to do a very firm correction(Alpha Rolls etc, as soon as I take her to the ground she challenges me with a fierce growl and tries her best to bite me with full force.
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No more "Alpha Rolling" - I'd bite you too if you pinned me to the ground. ACDs meet force with force, they're bred to do that.

She absolutely hates going outside because its so hot out,
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Work on outside leash training late at night or early in the morning. You can also try wetting her down and working in the shade with a breeze.

-She will only take a treat if I literally place it in her mouth, which makes it very difficult to guide her behavior by luring her(she really has no interest in food when she is outside)
Click to expand...
Have you tried very high value treats like real chicken, beef, liver, cheese?

Physical reprimands are met with challenge, however I never allow her to win them, which sometimes gets me bit pretty hard.
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Quit fighting with your dog. She's a puppy, she's not "challenging" you, she's acting on instinct. No physical reprimands- redirect to appropriate behavior, use a time out, ignore her etc. Use more thinking, less force.

I refer to the same treatment her mother or litter mates would do.
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But you are not her mother, you are not a dog and she KNOWS that. If you know a well trained, puppy friendly adult dog with good bite inhibition and high energy, some playtime with that dog might help. But only an adult that knows how to deal gently but firmly with puppies.

Yelling or yiping "OUCH!" only makes her enjoy biting more, since she gets a response out of it,
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Try a different noise. keep her leashed inside at all times and if she gets nippy, tuck the leash in a door or to a heavy piece of furniture and step away for a minute. Aka "my game (no biting) or no game at all"

-Crate training, put dog in crate, leave dog in crate, in a few days dog will no longer cry. Congratulations your dog is now crate trained.
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I have NEVER seen that as advice for truly crate training from any decent source. Google "crate games" which is a kind of progressive process (a few hours to start) of building a positive association with the crate and also training good behavior in it (like sit-and-wait when the door opens)

In the end, I am just looking for assurance on her overly aggressive behavior. Everyone who has seen her do it is completely shocked a puppy would act that way.
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It sounds like a normal puppy to me, one that is being riled up by your training techniques rather than calmed down by them.

will attempt to find better motivators
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Some dogs go crazy over fetch, tug, playing with water, etc. It is trial and error to find what motivates your dog
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J
Shell said:
No more "Alpha Rolling" - I'd bite you too if you pinned me to the ground. ACDs meet force with force, they're bred to do that.


Work on outside leash training late at night or early in the morning. You can also try wetting her down and working in the shade with a breeze.


Have you tried very high value treats like real chicken, beef, liver, cheese?


Quit fighting with your dog. She's a puppy, she's not "challenging" you, she's acting on instinct. No physical reprimands- redirect to appropriate behavior, use a time out, ignore her etc. Use more thinking, less force.


But you are not her mother, you are not a dog and she KNOWS that. If you know a well trained, puppy friendly adult dog with good bite inhibition and high energy, some playtime with that dog might help. But only an adult that knows how to deal gently but firmly with puppies.


Try a different noise. keep her leashed inside at all times and if she gets nippy, tuck the leash in a door or to a heavy piece of furniture and step away for a minute. Aka "my game (no biting) or no game at all"


I have NEVER seen that as advice for truly crate training from any decent source. Google "crate games" which is a kind of progressive process (a few hours to start) of building a positive association with the crate and also training good behavior in it (like sit-and-wait when the door opens)


It sounds like a normal puppy to me, one that is being riled up by your training techniques rather than calmed down by them.


Some dogs go crazy over fetch, tug, playing with water, etc. It is trial and error to find what motivates your dog
Click to expand...
Thanks for the response. I do try and work with the leash at more appropriate temperatures. I do know she enjoys being outside in the grass, at least when it is not so oppressively hot out.

I have used real meats for more difficult training to keep her motivated. I had to do this for the crate training, but she still hasn't developed a liking to it. She knows the crate equals being locked up, no matter how much positive reinforcement goes into it. However, after a minute or 2 she usually just takes a nap.

Many dog behaviorists will argue that dogs do in fact believe we are just odd looking 2 legged dogs, which is why many use training based from mother dog behaviors(obviously debatable). Why else would they suggest saying ouch, or ignoring the dog? this is exactly what other dogs do.

Obviously there was some sarcasm in my expression of crate training, but I was just emphasizing the lack of explanation when things go differently then expected. In the dog whisperer's book, he basically says that the dog will stop crying within 3 days, then never addresses the possibility of it not happening. Which seems misleading, and is almost the default for all training instructions. I do engage in crate games on a daily basis to drive home the positives of being in the crate.

I will adjust the actions I take in her training, and look for a change in her behavior. I do realize she is a puppy and these actions will change, I am just trying to find the correct way to guide her out of it. 1/2 the people say be dominant and let the dog knows who is boss, and the other 1/2 say never lay a finger on the dog or raise your voice.(and again, I am not saying hit the dog in anyway, when i refer to physical reprimands its things like nudging hind quarters, hold them down till they calm, muzzle them with your hand, etc)
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Shell
1/2 the people say be dominant and let the dog knows who is boss, and the other 1/2 say never lay a finger on the dog or raise your voice.(and again, I am not saying hit the dog in anyway, when i refer to physical reprimands its things like nudging hind quarters, hold them down till they calm, muzzle them with your hand, etc)
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There is a middle ground.
First, I would never muzzle a dog with my hand- that is asking to get bitten. I would not hold them till they calm because I don't believe that it is a true comfortable, calm state but more of a fearful submissive state.

I will use nudges, tugs (not yanks, not pops) on a leash attached to a harness, I'll tap the dog to get his attention, etc. Not reprimands but rather signals.

My dog, and the other dogs I take in, know I am the boss but not because I overpower them or harass them. Think of a really good workplace environment. The boss is in charge, sure, but he listens to his employees and responds to their needs and supports their endeavors. In return, the employees try to do a good job because they know they are being treated well and they want to continue to have a good relationship with their boss.

Give the crate time and continue to provide positive association. Maybe a treat or a toy that the dog loves but ONLY gets in the crate.

Why else would they suggest saying ouch, or ignoring the dog? this is exactly what other dogs do
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Other dogs might do that, but ignoring a dog that wants to play (and for dogs, biting like that IS play) is more universal than just something dogs do. Parents give children "timeouts" which is basically the same thing. "Ouch" I think is more of something to startle the dog and tell the dog you don't like that action.
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J
Shell said:
There is a middle ground.
First, I would never muzzle a dog with my hand- that is asking to get bitten. I would not hold them till they calm because I don't believe that it is a true comfortable, calm state but more of a fearful submissive state.

I will use nudges, tugs (not yanks, not pops) on a leash attached to a harness, I'll tap the dog to get his attention, etc. Not reprimands but rather signals.

My dog, and the other dogs I take in, know I am the boss but not because I overpower them or harass them. Think of a really good workplace environment. The boss is in charge, sure, but he listens to his employees and responds to their needs and supports their endeavors. In return, the employees try to do a good job because they know they are being treated well and they want to continue to have a good relationship with their boss.

Give the crate time and continue to provide positive association. Maybe a treat or a toy that the dog loves but ONLY gets in the crate.


Other dogs might do that, but ignoring a dog that wants to play (and for dogs, biting like that IS play) is more universal than just something dogs do. Parents give children "timeouts" which is basically the same thing. "Ouch" I think is more of something to startle the dog and tell the dog you don't like that action.
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The temperature got to a more suitable place tonight before it got dark, so I was able to get some decent time on the leash. She was doing good for the most part, until she got too thirsty; and even though she would return after hitting the end of the leash and come back for a treat, she would immediatly head back towards the house where she knows where water is. I will start carrying some water with me in an attempt to keep her interested and cooler while outside.

I've been using a flexi leash, and she feels more comfortable with longer slack, as soon as I lock it to 4-6 feet she starts to fight it more than when I let it extend out further. I will gradually decrease the slack overtime until it keeps her near my side, hopefully she will adjust without really noticing.

I also took the advice from what you mentioned earlier of locking the leash down indoors if they bite and give them a time out. I locked down a chain leash(so she wont chew on it/through it) and hook her up to that during training sessions. If she gets into one of her overexcited bite fests(which saying ouch just makes her bite more) I simply walk away to my chair and turn my back to her till she calms down. It also helps with her trying to jump up and grab treats out of my hand when giving commands.

I also found it useful for reinforcing the "off" command, by placing something she would love to tear apart, like a paper towel, on top of her kennel, placed just far enough away so that she can get her front paws on top of it but not reach it with her mouth. Then I can stand opposite the room and reward as she gets off. She is a smart beast though, and will put paws on it then immediatly turn to me for a treat, attempting to trick me into being a snack dispenser!
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hanksimon
First, if you read some that suggests an "Alpha Roll" then that person is wrong!!! Don't list to any advice from that person, there are too many better sources... for example: here are two free downloads that answer many of your questions: http://www.dogstardaily.com/free-downloads
Also, don't force or hold your dog down... you will teach the dog to learn aggression, instead of sweetness... But the damage can be reversed.

Second, dog know that we are Not dogs. Clinical research has demonstrated that dogs treat people very differently than other dogs.
The Bite Inhibition method uses a word or noise to mark the undesired behavior. You could also use a clicker, but that level of precision isn't needed. In fact, the pup's mother will snark a pup and bite the pup's neck to reprimand it. I don't suggest that you bite your pup, hair in your mouth will make you cough :)


Re-read the Sticky:the Bite Stops Here. perhaps you haven't been sticking with it long enough. Read this and note the 3 days and the apology....She ignored the Yelp!, because you ignored the apology. Instead of the Yelp, you can say Ouch! or Oops!

Some Tweaks to Bite Inhibition (to get her to stop biting when she wants to play or otherwise):
1. When the pup bites, then yelp. It should sound about like what the pup does when you step on its paw... don't step on her paw for a sample :). When you yelp, the pup should startle briefly and stop nipping. Praise and pet. SHe'll bite.
2. When she bites the second time, Yelp. When she stops, praise and pet. SHe'll nip again, although it may be a little gentler. ...
3. When she bites a third time, Yelp (see a pattern?). But this time, turn your back for 15 - 30 secs. If she comes around and play bows or barks, then that is an apology. This is important. Accept it, praise and pet... and cringe in expectation of the next nip...
4. When she bites the 4th time, Yelp, then leave the area, placing her in a 2 min. time-out. It is better if you can leave, rather than moving her. Then, return and interact. (SHe's still hungry...)
5. When she nips the fifth time, yelp, and leave the area, stopping interaction for now.

You can modify the number of steps, but not what you do...

Pups need to sleep over night in order to learn their lessons. So, keep doing this for 3 days. By the third day, you should notice signficant Bite Inhibition. SHe may still nip, but it will be softer and she won't draw blood. And, she should be less aggressive, especially, if you notice the apology. Keep up the training and make sure that everyone yelps.... Very powerful method.

If you learn the technique, then you can apply the "yelp" to other circumstances, also. I believe that "yelp" is "Please don't do that, I don't like it." in dog communication. I currently use the yelp when my dog plays tug, then runs with the toy, when he fetches and keeps it out of reach or when he takes a treat too quickly....

You are Not trying to force the pup or be a dominant leader. You are trying to train the pup by communicating... Her genetic goal is to adapt to you. Once you communicate the rules, she will seem to read your mind, as you learn to be patient and consistent. Follow these principles, and she may never be aggressive again !
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R
tons of great training info above so I won't repeat it but will add:
- she is young for doing tons of leash work. she is also not immunized yet so be careful where you walk her. For walks the rule of thumb is 5 minutes per month of age so 10 minutes max. You can do it twice a day. the rest of exercise should be off leash play, which she may need more of.
- look at socialization, especially with a breed that can be iffy with other dogs if not properly socialised. Find friendly dogs that are up to date on theri shots for her to interact with. Look at puppy classes, they will great help with both training and socialisation.
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J
hanksimon said:
First, if you read some that suggests an "Alpha Roll" then that person is wrong!!! Don't list to any advice from that person, there are too many better sources... for example: here are two free downloads that answer many of your questions: http://www.dogstardaily.com/free-downloads
Also, don't force or hold your dog down... you will teach the dog to learn aggression, instead of sweetness... But the damage can be reversed.

Second, dog know that we are Not dogs. Clinical research has demonstrated that dogs treat people very differently than other dogs.
The Bite Inhibition method uses a word or noise to mark the undesired behavior. You could also use a clicker, but that level of precision isn't needed. In fact, the pup's mother will snark a pup and bite the pup's neck to reprimand it. I don't suggest that you bite your pup, hair in your mouth will make you cough :)


Re-read the Sticky:the Bite Stops Here. perhaps you haven't been sticking with it long enough. Read this and note the 3 days and the apology....She ignored the Yelp!, because you ignored the apology. Instead of the Yelp, you can say Ouch! or Oops!

Some Tweaks to Bite Inhibition (to get her to stop biting when she wants to play or otherwise):
1. When the pup bites, then yelp. It should sound about like what the pup does when you step on its paw... don't step on her paw for a sample :). When you yelp, the pup should startle briefly and stop nipping. Praise and pet. SHe'll bite.
2. When she bites the second time, Yelp. When she stops, praise and pet. SHe'll nip again, although it may be a little gentler. ...
3. When she bites a third time, Yelp (see a pattern?). But this time, turn your back for 15 - 30 secs. If she comes around and play bows or barks, then that is an apology. This is important. Accept it, praise and pet... and cringe in expectation of the next nip...
4. When she bites the 4th time, Yelp, then leave the area, placing her in a 2 min. time-out. It is better if you can leave, rather than moving her. Then, return and interact. (SHe's still hungry...)
5. When she nips the fifth time, yelp, and leave the area, stopping interaction for now.

You can modify the number of steps, but not what you do...

Pups need to sleep over night in order to learn their lessons. So, keep doing this for 3 days. By the third day, you should notice signficant Bite Inhibition. SHe may still nip, but it will be softer and she won't draw blood. And, she should be less aggressive, especially, if you notice the apology. Keep up the training and make sure that everyone yelps.... Very powerful method.

If you learn the technique, then you can apply the "yelp" to other circumstances, also. I believe that "yelp" is "Please don't do that, I don't like it." in dog communication. I currently use the yelp when my dog plays tug, then runs with the toy, when he fetches and keeps it out of reach or when he takes a treat too quickly....

You are Not trying to force the pup or be a dominant leader. You are trying to train the pup by communicating... Her genetic goal is to adapt to you. Once you communicate the rules, she will seem to read your mind, as you learn to be patient and consistent. Follow these principles, and she may never be aggressive again !
Click to expand...
Thanks for the input, I think it is harder for her to understand my "yiping" since I cannot make a loud high pitched yelp or cry. I think me just yelling ouch sounds more like a bark to her. I will try and find something that will bring the proper reaction from her. Again though she doesn't seem to hold back on the next bite, in fact she tends to bite harder the more I ham it up with louder squeals.

**EDIT: Well I tried one last play session to tire her out before bed, and as soon as I yelped or made any displeasing noise when she mouthed me, she turned into a bite frenzy. This time she bit my hand so hard it punctured me several times and was bleeding. She never attempts to bite this hard during normal play, only when I react strongly to getting mouthed.
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hanksimon
Not sure. It sounds like she was trying to bite more gently, and you still yelped, so she was frustrated ? Gotta praise her when she backs off or when she apologizes.... Each time she wakes up is somewhat of a re-set, so she may not chomp down again.
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wvasko
Sayin it again, you were gonna have a play session so maybe you wear long sleeve shirt light leather gloves so the bites don't hurt and draw blood, pups do grow out of a lot of this silly stuff. This is a 9 week old puppy not an alligator.

When you protect yourself you don't react so strongly.
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T
wvasko said:
When you protect yourself you don't react so strongly.
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I used my full-fingered bike gloves. (old ones) It helped me feel better about playing and provided some protection from those darn mini-razors (one of which I have! found it in his bed!!!) I also used an old sweat shirt- which has holes in the pockets and sleeves from my 2 puppies' learning periods!


jfaust said:
Thanks for the input, I think it is harder for her to understand my "yiping" since I cannot make a loud high pitched yelp or cry. I think me just yelling ouch sounds more like a bark to her. I will try and find something that will bring the proper reaction from her. Again though she doesn't seem to hold back on the next bite, in fact she tends to bite harder the more I ham it up with louder squeals.
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My husband is in the very low register with his voice and can't make the sound either. When a dog makes it is very loud and high! With consistency, the dogs learned his 'please stop' noise.


Crate Games with Susan Garrett is something a lot of people like. We have never crated, and so far have been OK.


I've also heard that at this age- which your dog is an infant- play is more important than training. Play tug, I hope for you the walking can continue, b/c you won't have to train loose leash later! I did not do this, and loose leash training has taken some time.

I, too have not found videos that helpful- it seems to me trainers use their Border Collies that already know the trick or skill? Useless. But kikopup does not do this. She has a wholelotta videos on You Tube.
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wvasko
I've also heard that at this age- which your dog is an infant- play is more important than training.
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Doesn't that make sense, I would not want a 7 yr old child digging ditches. There is nothing wrong with fun/training pups but how many times have we seen people writing and asking why their 10 week old puppy has not followed or done the commands he did the day before.

It's a puppy not a 10 week old robot.
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jfaust said:
Thanks for the input, I think it is harder for her to understand my "yiping" since I cannot make a loud high pitched yelp or cry. I think me just yelling ouch sounds more like a bark to her. I will try and find something that will bring the proper reaction from her. Again though she doesn't seem to hold back on the next bite, in fact she tends to bite harder the more I ham it up with louder squeals.

**EDIT: Well I tried one last play session to tire her out before bed, and as soon as I yelped or made any displeasing noise when she mouthed me, she turned into a bite frenzy. This time she bit my hand so hard it punctured me several times and was bleeding. She never attempts to bite this hard during normal play, only when I react strongly to getting mouthed.
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Yipping can make some dogs more excited and ramp them up. I would suggest a quiet "whoops" and ending all play in that instant. She will learn. The tether was a good idea :)

Also, you've been reading the wrong books ;)

I suggest:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Puppy-Pri...8&qid=1344204124&sr=8-1&keywords=puppy+primer
http://www.amazon.com/How-Behave-Your-Dog-Behaves/dp/0793806445/ref=pd_sim_b_3
http://www.amazon.com/On-Talking-Terms-With-Dogs/dp/1929242360/ref=pd_sim_b_4
http://www.amazon.com/When-Pigs-Fly...&qid=1344204567&sr=1-17&keywords=dog+training
http://www.amazon.com/Dog-Sense-Sci...UTF8&qid=1344204725&sr=1-1&keywords=dog+sense
http://www.amazon.com/Reaching-Animal-Mind-Clicker-Training/dp/0743297776/ref=pd_sim_b_48

Have you found your way to these trainer's channels?
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF26FD559887E7EA4&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/user/domesticatedmanners?feature=results_main
http://www.youtube.com/user/tab289?feature=results_main
http://www.youtube.com/user/3lostdogs?feature=results_main
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ofthelogos said:
Yipping can make some dogs more excited and ramp them up. I would suggest a quiet "whoops" and ending all play in that instant. She will learn. The tether was a good idea :)

Also, you've been reading the wrong books ;)

I suggest:
http://www.amazon.com/The-Puppy-Pri...8&qid=1344204124&sr=8-1&keywords=puppy+primer
http://www.amazon.com/How-Behave-Your-Dog-Behaves/dp/0793806445/ref=pd_sim_b_3
http://www.amazon.com/On-Talking-Terms-With-Dogs/dp/1929242360/ref=pd_sim_b_4
http://www.amazon.com/When-Pigs-Fly...&qid=1344204567&sr=1-17&keywords=dog+training
http://www.amazon.com/Dog-Sense-Sci...UTF8&qid=1344204725&sr=1-1&keywords=dog+sense
http://www.amazon.com/Reaching-Animal-Mind-Clicker-Training/dp/0743297776/ref=pd_sim_b_48

Have you found your way to these trainer's channels?
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF26FD559887E7EA4&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/user/domesticatedmanners?feature=results_main
http://www.youtube.com/user/tab289?feature=results_main
http://www.youtube.com/user/3lostdogs?feature=results_main
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Thanks for the links, I've come acrossed a few of these, but will look at them and the others again. She is doing a little bit better after a day or 2 of changing the approaches in the teachings. After doing some research and reading topics on dogs in similar situations from Leerburg's site I feel much more comfortable with her behavior, and it is just normal with a puppy that has a very extreme prey drive.(the video showed a 10 week old corgi that acted very similar to how my puppy gets).

I have started doing new playtime activities(thankfully the weather is a bit cooler), which promotes her prey drive towards other objects and tires her out of the behavior during those sessions. I basically got a tie-down stake, a puppy tie-down wire, and a livestock whip. I attached some extra nylon rope to the end of the whip and then I tie some of her favorite toys to the string, and I have a tool I can use to have her chase around objects(far from my hands) and get all that prey drive energy worked out. It is fantastic exercise and playtime for her, and keeps me out of harms way. It is also a very easy environment for me to control her, since my hands are free(no need to hold leash). This way I can either just walk away from her, or rewards her with treats without juggling her control.

Some family members came by today while I was away visiting my brother, and they got her out and played with her and she did very good and made no attempts to bite. She is very gentle and submissive towards strangers, and it was a good socialization experience.

As for the earlier comments about training a puppy at 10 weeks, almost everything says this is a very important learning phase(8-16 weeks), and groundwork needs to be made in their training, especially for potentially aggressive dogs(which my puppy definitely is). I do nothing in her training that doesn't represent playtime and bonding between us. I exercise her mind, and she gets tasty food/toys and praise from it. I also do not force training, when she loses interest we shift to something like napping, chew time, or non-restricted play.
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ofthelogos said:
Yipping can make some dogs more excited and ramp them up. I would suggest a quiet "whoops" and ending all play in that instant.0
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This, this, and this!

You know how squeaky toys excite some dogs? So does high pitched yelping. Yelping at Kylie results in yelling and bouncing and general FRANTIC behavior. Just plain walking away works - and would work better if I did not have children who don't listen/forget to not let her play with her mouth. OTOH, she DOES inhibit how she bites, normally, because when she gets too rough the kids, however stubborn they are--

Get up and leave because it's not fun when it hurts.

**ETA:** I also agree with the people who said that at that age, play is more important than training. Formal training at that age is probably not going to stick, to be honest. A few REALLY short sessions a day - sit, loading a clicker, etc. is one thing. Expecting a 9 week old to be really well trained is another. At that stage, it's mostly down to management - prevent behaviors you don't want, positively reenforce those you do. Ie: Don't let them pee in the house, take them out often, stop play time when they nip, praise the puppy for outside pee, for coming to you in the house, and generally work on building a bond with your pup, house manners, and teaching them how to interact with people and to love you, first.

Kylie is stupid well behaved/trained for a slightly less than four month old puppy. She mostly walks well on a leash, she sits when she's told, she's got a pretty solid 30 second stay, she's basically housebroken (I won't call it at less than 6 months, but she's good about going to the door and asking to go out, should the door be closed (it's usually open, this time of year, for her.) has a good recall. The sit and stay are the only formal things we've worked on, and that's very, very mild. Mostly it's just consistent reenforcement of what we DO want, and ample opportunities to succeed combined with very, very limited opportunity to 'fail'. It's WORK, it's time consuming, it involves as much supervision as I'd give a human infant.

But it's working.
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jfaust said:
Thanks for the input, I think it is harder for her to understand my "yiping" since I cannot make a loud high pitched yelp or cry. I think me just yelling ouch sounds more like a bark to her. I will try and find something that will bring the proper reaction from her. Again though she doesn't seem to hold back on the next bite, in fact she tends to bite harder the more I ham it up with louder squeals.

**EDIT: Well I tried one last play session to tire her out before bed, and as soon as I yelped or made any displeasing noise when she mouthed me, she turned into a bite frenzy. This time she bit my hand so hard it punctured me several times and was bleeding. She never attempts to bite this hard during normal play, only when I react strongly to getting mouthed.
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I would take it the opposite direction. get quiet, get still. If you walk away, do it slow and deliberate. It sounds like your behavior is getting her over-aroused.
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jfaust said:
As for the earlier comments about training a puppy at 10 weeks, almost everything says this is a very important learning phase(8-16 weeks), and groundwork needs to be made in their training, especially for potentially aggressive dogs(which my puppy definitely is). I do nothing in her training that doesn't represent playtime and bonding between us. I exercise her mind, and she gets tasty food/toys and praise from it. I also do not force training, when she loses interest we shift to something like napping, chew time, or non-restricted play.
Click to expand...
This is advice from Susan Garret to play, not train. She'd got wonderful blogs and even online classes.

Ian Dunbar's books are free and really helpful. He lays out the priorities and goals for these developmental times. I found them very, very,very useful. I hope you do, too.

Good luck!

You know your dog, but I can't help but wonder if some of her 'aggression' is from the way you were treating her with the antiquated training techniques- it sounds like she felt the need to defend herself.

I also use a flirt pole- one of my dogs LOVES it.
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