Advice on feeding schedule (new diet)

3042 Views 20 Replies 7 Participants Last post by majj35, Jan 26, 2020

majj35

Discussion Starter · Jan 5, 2020

Hello all, I have a 6yr old Frengle (beagle/frenchie mix) and he's a little overweight and trying to drop 7lbs. He's around 37lbs now.
I just switched him to wet food. Note: since moving back home oversears.. we don't have many dog food options so this is the best one I found so far.

Anyways, I used to feed him kibble 3 times per day (1/3 cup each) on diet. Now, I purchased this wet food and looking at the feeding recommendation on the back:

- For a 13kg dog, recommended to feed 2 1/2 cans
-Right now, I'm feeding him 1 can per day. Separated in 3 meals (1/3 of can) each meal. throughout the day, I do give him some tiny snacks (finger size) like chicken if I'm having dinner.

My questions: Is 1 can too much, too little? What should I be doing ?. Don't worry, we go for walks 20-25mins per day.

below are the ingredients:
Chicken, Chicken Broth, Chicken Liver, Brown Rice, Whole Dried Egg, Green Peas, Calcium Chloride, Guar Gum, Flaxseed, Salmon Oil, Choline Chloride, Salt, Pumpkin, Apples, Carrot, Cranberries, Ginger, L-Ascorbyl-2-Polyphosphate (source of Vitamin C), Zinc Proteinate, Vitamin E Supplement, Ferrous Sulfate, Iron Proteinate, Zinc Sulfate, Niacin Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Copper Proteinate, Vitamin A Supplement, Selenium Yeast, Manganese Sulfate, Manganese Proteinate, D-Calcium Pantothenate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Riboflavin Supplement, Biotin, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin B12, Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid

Feeding Guidelines:
2.2 kg (5 lb) ---> 5/8 can (234 g)
6.8 kg (15 lb)---> 1 1/2 cans (546 g)
13.6 kg (30 lb)---> 2 1/2 cans (919 g)

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DaySleepers

· #2 · Jan 5, 2020

You said there were about 300 calories/can in another thread, right? One a day seems a little low for a dog his size, even for weight loss and low activity. This article seems like a good place to start: Basic Calorie Calculator | Veterinary Medical Center
If I'm reading the chart correctly (it sure is tiny), you're looking between 500 and 600 calories/day for weight loss. Every dog is different, of course, so you'll still need to monitor his weight and body condition to make sure he's losing weight at a healthy rate (not too fast) at that calorie level, and you may need to adjust again if he plateaus before hitting your weight goal for him, but if he were mine I'd start closer to 2 cans a day at 300 calories/can.

Doglight

· #3 · Jan 5, 2020 (Edited)

Hi Majj35- Each dog is different and each living situation is different, so general guidelines are always only a starting point. It is up to you to constantly and nimbly monitor if the dog's weight is too high or too low and respond with measured, gradual adjustments to the food accordingly. If you can measure the food on a scale or by using measuring cups, then that will be most accurate and easiest to adjust in increments, but if you have to estimate by eye what portion of a can you are using, just do it as accurately as possible. You need a system that works for you to accurately know/monitor how much food you are giving each time, so that you can gradually decrease or increase it as needed over time. The right amount of food can change throughout the year, in response to seasonal temperature changes and what is happening in the dog's life.

Important note: Be sure that as soon as any can is opened, the food inside is removed from the can. When a full can is not used, store the remainder in a covered glass (or safe BPA-free plastic) container in the refrigerator and use it promptly. Never store food in an opened can, even for a short time.

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majj35

Discussion Starter · #4 · Jan 6, 2020

Thanks guys for the advice. And yes, 1 can has 318 calories. I do give him random dog treats during the day, and finger size food while im having dinner (chicken, beef, or veggies)

Also, when feeding him the 1/3 wet food , 3 times (total 1 can) on his 3rd meal, i add 1/4 cup kibble (need to verify the calories on the kibble)

So technically, he’s getting at least 450 calories. I can’t find the ideal weight of a Frengle Breed, but both Frenchie/Beagles ideal weights are 29lbs (13kg) so i assume he should be around that.

I’m just worried im underfeeding him, or overfeeding him. Here’s a photo i took a couple weeks back.

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Doglight

· #5 · Jan 6, 2020 (Edited)

He really doesn't look underfed. Maybe just about right. Possibly a bit chubby. It's hard to tell from a single picture in this position. The view from above is considered the most informative, I believe. I don't know about calories. I've had dogs for about eleven years now, but I have never counted calories.

He looks like a nice dog. That tail is cute.

majj35

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jan 6, 2020

Thank you

Yes i do have a top view, but this was taken back in June, 2019.

I’ll have to share a new one

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DaySleepers

· #7 · Jan 6, 2020

Yeah, with kibble and treats mixed in it sounds like you may be in the right ballpark.

He does look a bit plump in my (inexpert) opinion! That's not surprising, both breeds in his mix are notorious for gaining weight when they even look at food, haha. It's great that you've recognized that and are looking to get him to a healthier weight. For an individual dog, it's usually easier to judge by body condition than breed standard, as even within breeds there can be significant variation in what each dog's best weight is, especially when you factor in conditioned (very fit dogs with lots of muscle) vs. average muscle tone.

Here's a clearer version of the body condition chart from my last link:

And a link to a more comprehensive version:

https://globalk9protection.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Dog-BCS-chart.jpg

Essentially, you should be able to feel his ribs without pressing hard, but only be able to see maybe the last one or two (if his coat isn't so thick it'd hide that). Hard to judge his belly tuck from that first picture, but I'd be looking for a more defined waist from the top. It's hard to say where he is on the chart from a photo alone, so definitely use your best judgement, since you're the one who knows how he feels!

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Quinsation

· #8 · Jan 9, 2020

And now for the unpopular answer....I will be blunt, in these photos, your dog looks fat. Which is not uncommon for a lot of pets.
"I can’t find the ideal weight of a Frengle Breed" Of course you can't. There is no such breed. You have a mixed breed mutt which you happen to know what mixes he entails. Nothing wrong with mutts, I have 4 of them.

That said... going by what a bag of can of food says can be very misleading. If people followed those guidelines, most dogs would be obese. The best way to judge if your dog is too heavy is with your eyes and hands.
How does the dog LOOK? Can you easily feel ribs w/o seeing them? Or do you have to feel around for them?

I have a 35 lb. mixed breed, she LOOKS lean, but if you put hands on her, you can feel a layer over her ribs.
She is fed 3/4 of kibble twice a day, and is very active, training and competing in agility.

You don't need to make drastic changes to your dogs diet. Cut back on the food a LITTLE bit, feed less (or smaller) treats, add another walk into the day, or extend the walks he's getting now.

I will never understand how a dog, especially a smaller dog, can get 7 lbs overweight without it being noticed.
I can easily notice a 1 or 2 lb change in my 60 lb dog. Your vet should let your bring your dog in to be weighed w/o having to pay anything. So you can keep a handle on their weight before it becomes a major issue.

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Reactions: 1

Doglight

· #9 · Jan 9, 2020 (Edited)

Quinsation said:
And now for the unpopular answer....I will be blunt, in these photos, your dog looks fat. Which is not uncommon for a lot of pets.
"I can’t find the ideal weight of a Frengle Breed" Of course you can't. There is no such breed. You have a mixed breed mutt which you happen to know what mixes he entails. Nothing wrong with mutts, I have 4 of them.

That said... going by what a bag of can of food says can be very misleading. If people followed those guidelines, most dogs would be obese. The best way to judge if your dog is too heavy is with your eyes and hands.
How does the dog LOOK? Can you easily feel ribs w/o seeing them? Or do you have to feel around for them?

I have a 35 lb. mixed breed, she LOOKS lean, but if you put hands on her, you can feel a layer over her ribs.
She is fed 3/4 of kibble twice a day, and is very active, training and competing in agility.

You don't need to make drastic changes to your dogs diet. Cut back on the food a LITTLE bit, feed less (or smaller) treats, add another walk into the day, or extend the walks he's getting now.

I will never understand how a dog, especially a smaller dog, can get 7 lbs overweight without it being noticed.
I can easily notice a 1 or 2 lb change in my 60 lb dog. Your vet should let your bring your dog in to be weighed w/o having to pay anything. So you can keep a handle on their weight before it becomes a major issue.

I can't believe you just fat shamed that nice dog.

"mixed breed m _ _ _ "

And you called him the M word, too.

Now he's going to binge on half a bag of treats just to console himself.

It's bad enough picking on a straw man, but when you go around picking on poor little dogs...

storyist

· #10 · Jan 9, 2020

I will never understand how a dog, especially a smaller dog, can get 7 lbs overweight without it being noticed.

Well, I don't have small dogs, but I can understand it. It just sneaks up on you, and one day you look at one and think, "Hmm, you look at little chubby." It's like anything you see every day, you kind of take it for granted - until you don't, and every time I change diets on mine a little, all of a sudden they plump up. Somehow they never get skinny, which is of course true for me too, so maybe it's a family problem. I think about taking all 3 of them to the nearest PetsMart for a regular weigh in, but somehow that never happens. So sometimes we diet and sometimes we don't.

The dog in the OP's picture doesn't look any 7 pounds overweight to me. Seven pounds is a lot of weight for a smallish dog who does have a bit of a waist. I bet 2 or 3 pounds less would be about right.

majj35

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jan 9, 2020

Ok ignoring weight numbers, by just looking at him, when he’s sitting on his stomach (superman) his sides feel a little chubbyish to me.. but when i feel for his ribs..it’s easy. (But that’s such a subjective question. To me it’s easy, to others it might not feel easy)

And yeah there is a layer over the ribs, its not felt immediately as soon as i touch it (that would be too skinny) i feel it easy i dont have to press or look for it.

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DaySleepers

· #12 · Jan 9, 2020

The reason I say overweight is it looks like there's fat deposits at the base of the tail and rolls around the neck. He does have a waist on the above picture, but it's not as pronounced as I'd expect from a dog at ideal pet weight (pet weight vs. a highly conditioned working or sport dog, since I'm assuming that isn't your goal here).

For reference, I can feel the ribs on both my boys with a light stroke. They don't feel prominent, mind you, but they're there. If they're shaved down really short I can see the last rib, maybe two depending on how they're standing. Curls make it really hard to visually assess weight though, haha. The weight definitely can sneak up, especially on a smaller dog who's an 'easy keeper' (puts weight on easily and loses it slowly), but it's a great idea to aim for getting him leaner. It'll be easier on his joints and organs as he heads towards his senior years.

Knute

· #13 · Jan 9, 2020

IMHO. The dog is overweight. You may need to visit with your Vet about the dog's weight and what the Vet feels it should weigh.

I just recently came back to USA from China. I was feeding a 100% raw diet. My mini-schnauzer was at a nice trim, lean, athletic weight of 6.2 kg (about 13.5 lb). Now, I am in the process of shifting his diet over to kibble. The bag states he should receive 1 cup/day. I started him on a 1/2 cup per day due to less walking than when we were in China. This is due to the change in weather and temps. I noticed his spine was a bit more pronounced than what I would like. So, I'm bumping his food to 3/4 cup per day. I'm feeding Blue Carnovia Prairie blend. My dog has a nicely defined shape, but has lost about 3/4 kg (about 1.5 lb) of weight. Doesn't sound like much but that is about 12% of his weight.

My point is you need to adjust the food intake (all food, snacks, treats, dry, wet....) to match the dog's metabolism and exercise. If you are giving snacks and treats during the day, then you need to reduce the size of his meal. Everything that goes past the tongue counts as food.

An effective way to manage his snacks and treats is to weigh out his daily food. Pull the snacks and treats from the daily food measure. Remember, training rewards need only be enough for a smell and a taste. If you crate him with a kong, then the kong should be loaded with part of his daily meal measure.

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majj35

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jan 15, 2020

Managed to take more photos just now. The thing is , yes he’s a half frenchie but kind of has english bulldog/pitbull features (muscly hands/thighs, broad chest)

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majj35

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jan 23, 2020

The food ran out in stores. Is this ok?

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NancyM

· #16 · Jan 23, 2020

majj35 said:
Managed to take more photos just now. The thing is , yes he’s a half frenchie but kind of has english bulldog/pitbull features (muscly hands/thighs, broad chest)

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Your dog indeed looks rather bulky than chubby. But you're doing well giving him wet food, way to go. I hope he's fine now.
As for the food which ran out of stores, maybe that's a good sign. You should do as Knute said in the post above and as advised here try a raw diet maybe. By the way, did you show your pet to a vet?

majj35

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jan 23, 2020

NancyM said:
Your dog indeed looks rather bulky than chubby. But you're doing well giving him wet food, way to go. I hope he's fine now.
As for the food which ran out of stores, maybe that's a good sign. You should do as Knute said in the post above and as advised here try a raw diet maybe. By the way, did you show your pet to a vet?

Thank you!
Ill look up for a perfect raw diet. But for now, is the new food ingredients ok?

It does say 95% mean, of which 26% turkey. Is that ok? Is this also trying to cover what’s in the remaining %?

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Knute

· #18 · Jan 23, 2020

You won't find the "perfect" raw diet. There are many mythconceptions regarding raw feeding.

A couple of good resources I found are very detailed books. One by Dr. Karen Becker and one by Dr. Pitcarin.

After that, the education begins. Sourcing in your area, pricing and preppng coupled with your dog's preferences and metabolism.

Truth. Ready made dog food was invented in the early 1900s by an American electrician after he had traveled to London by boat. He was observing the street dogs eat the ship's discard of hard tack.

majj35

Discussion Starter · #19 · Jan 23, 2020

Knute said:
You won't find the "perfect" raw diet. There are many mythconceptions regarding raw feeding.

A couple of good resources I found are very detailed books. One by Dr. Karen Becker and one by Dr. Pitcarin.

After that, the education begins. Sourcing in your area, pricing and preppng coupled with your dog's preferences and metabolism.

Truth. Ready made dog food was invented in the early 1900s by an American electrician after he had traveled to London by boat. He was observing the street dogs eat the ship's discard of hard tack.

I’ll read more into raw diet and see what i can come up with. But the food i just got, to use while i switch to raw

Does it look ok? The ingredients?

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majj35

Discussion Starter · #20 · Jan 23, 2020

Also got another one. Ingredients look better. It says:

Lamb 94% , Peas 4.1%

The pack is 150g, and for dog weighing 11-25 kg recommend 800-1000 grams.

Now my dog is 17kg and should be around 14-15 should i feed him 800grams /day or less?

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