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Hi everyone
We've adopted 2 puppies who were abandoned they're now 2 weeks with us ( 7 weeks old now) and whe're having some trouble so hope you people can help me out :).

So the 2 puppies fight/play a lot ( that's normal i think).
But when it get's violent we break up the fight.

Bruntje is the stronger one and i asume she's the alpha. But Kaffie keeps challenging her ( the challenge both but after a while i would think Kaffie would back up a bit because she has a lot of bitemarks/ little wounds from teeth)

But at night we're not there when they fight and we're not there to break it up + they cry/bark for hours (when they go to bed, in the middle of the night,..) one day is better then the other but we can't seem to find out we need to do exactly . Do we need to seperate them to sleep ?

I looked all over the internet but can't seem to find any articles about to puppies sleeping together.

Hope you can help me out/give some tips raising 2 puppies.

Thank you in advance !
 

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I would start by separating them for sleeping. Even our two dogs who are a year and a half apart still have to be kept separate when unsupervised. They can play kind of rough and I wouldn't want it to escalate while I'm not there to break it up. Not to mention one of them could just get hurt accidentally and that's not a risk I'm willing to take.

Research "littermate syndrome". There's a lot of information on it that will probably be useful to you.
 

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I think I would separate them as well. I assume they are from the same litter, so they be trying to establish dominance as you indicated in your comments. Dogs do this in many ways - who gets to eat first, who gets to sleep where, who gets attention from the present alpha dog in the relationship - it may be you! Do you know the breed? some breed are just naturally more aggressive and will therefore, work harder at establishing dominance.
 

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Dominance theory is outdated and debunked and has nothing to do with current dog behavior theory or training methodology.

Researching littermate syndrome is a good start. I'd separate them at night, personally.
 

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You should get two crates and each pup should be trained to sleep in its own crate. They should be fed separately, played with and trained separately, and walked separately when they get a little older/have their shots. They can also play together, walk together, and nap together, but they need to have a lot of one-on-one time with you so that they bond to you and not just to each other. Littermate syndrome can be a huge headache (there was a member here whose adult chihuahuas couldn't be separated even by a wall, for example, or they'd scream all day... and sometimes it goes the opposite way and the dogs viciously fight when they're mature).

If you think that doing essentially three times the work isn't something you can (or want to) handle, it would likely be easier if you found a good home for one of the pups and just kept the other.
 

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It's pretty hard to give advice without actually seeing what is going on. I've raised many Labrador litters. At five to seven weeks the pups are learning bite inhibition. Meaning they are biting eachother hard, screaming about it, teeth are sharp, but nothing serious happens. There are generally a few that do more biting than others and a few that seem to be mostly victims. Ears and penises are bitten most...and result in the loudest screaming. Results in me running across the yard full steam thinking a puppy is getting murdered and finding nothing at all. This happens a few times a day. Generally this stops by eight weeks.
It may be that your pups are just going through a phase, and will grow out of it. But different breeds have different mouth habits and temperaments. What holds for Labbies may not hold for other breeds.
If your pups are like mine have been, I'd just keep an eye on it; make sure no one is really getting hurt; but keep the pups together and not go overboard with trying to control the situation.
 

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and sometimes it goes the opposite way and the dogs viciously fight when they're mature).
I've actually seen it go both ways - in the same set of dogs. Hysterical screaming when separated, violent fighting when together. Nasty.
 

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I agree with you that the old dominance theories, propagated by Jack London books, "White Fang" and Call of the Wild" are not valid for training purposes. With the information we are given here, though it seems that this behavior is more related to one individual trying to control another, which by most definitions constitutes a desire to establish dominance. In an article from the Association of Professional Dog Trainers on Dominance and Dog Training, it states " Dominance comes into play in a relationship between members of the same species when one individual wants to have the first pick of available resources such as food, beds, toys, bones, etc.". Later in this same article it is pointed out that this may not be true dominance behavior, but my be more appropriately defined as anxiety. Regardless, the objective is to get the two parties to peacefully co-exist. I do not and have never advocated physical punishment for an animal just to prove who is the boss and did not mean to communicate that belief, so thanks for the opportunity to clarify my position.
 

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I agree with you that the old dominance theories, propagated by Jack London books, "White Fang" and Call of the Wild" are not valid for training purposes.
Not that it really has anything to do with the subject, but I'm pretty sure those books had nothing to do with dominance theory. Especially since Buck hates the people who show "dominance" toward him and later takes his revenge on the entire human race. Hardly a positive outcome. If anyone took training tips from fictional books they should maybe rethink their life choices :p. (OK, I haven't read White Fang for a long time. Perhaps there's some dominance stuff used by the guy who "tames" him. I can't find a full synopsis that outlines what he does. But still---fictional novel! Don't take training tips from fiction!).

I believe it was David Mech who popularized the wolf pack dominance theory, but later he recanted because he found that wild wolf packs do not behave the same as the captive wolf packs he studied the first time. And dog aren't wolves.
 

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Yeah, I agree regarding fictional books, I recently read both books and they came to mind because of the use of force and the dog's reaction. Not the main pint of the books I agree!

Yes, I believe you are correct regarding David Mech.
 
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