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Discussion Starter #1
We take Caeda to doggy social on Fridays and to training on Wednesdays (though the final training class was last week). The dogs all generally play pretty well together, and the trainer oversees things and keeps an eye out for problems and will pull dogs apart, and occasionally give a minor correction or just hold onto the dog until it calms down. Most times it isn't a fight, its just that one dog or the other is getting overly stimulated.

There are two or three dogs that keep being part of the problem, and I pay a lot of attention to what is going on. There is one dog in particular that REALLY drives me nuts. As soon as it sees other dogs it gets all excited. Caeda actually greets it quite nicely now. This little thing often sniffs for a second and gets a "snarly face" on, teeth bared and all. Caeda then takes off to go play with another dog and the little one will chase after her and launch at her and grab an ear, or flesh nipping and biting. Of course Caeda turns around and plays back (seriously, there is no aggression from her at this point). The little one will generally get rolled on its back and after a minute or so Caeda will take off....it happens again. At some point the trainer pulls Caeda off and tells her NO and holds her until she calms down. Often the little dog comes back again, and repeat. Sometimes Caeda even rolls on her side or back to these little guys, or backs off, yet they still go for her!

There are a couple of other small dogs that do similar things, and the results are about the same. One of them (tiny bulldog) was actually hanging from Caeda's top lip! I know very well that Caeda isn't perfect, and that she does get carried away occasionally and deserves to be pulled out. But seriously why on earth do these little dogs never get pulled out. On top of it the owners are usually standing there glaring at us! The trainer doesn't say anything about it, I'm sure she sees what is going on. Why on earth are these little dogs getting so much leeway! I'm also willing to admit, that despite keeping a close eye on what is going on, maybe I'm missing something, but I think backing off is a pretty good indication that Caeda isn't pushing this dog to go for her.

No offence meant to the owners of small dogs, I know there are many out there that are willing to admit that theirs will instigate just as much as larger dogs will, but WOW, this drives me nuts.

Ok, rant over, sorry all, I just had to get this off of my chest, its been bugging me for weeks now!
 

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That sounds like a really frustrating situation. Could you maybe talk to the trainer before or after these events?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
That sounds like a really frustrating situation. Could you maybe talk to the trainer before or after these events?
I'm thinking about it.....I have a funny feeling the reason she is calming Caeda more than the other dog is because Caeda really is an overly excitable dog, and is prone to keep going too far, any chance to teach her to calm down is one worth taking I guess. If that is the case I accept it, I just don't get why these little dogs aren't being taught the same thing :p
 

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Yeah, people seem to under estimate little dogs WAY to much. They seem to think just because they are small, it's okay for them to be aggressive. About a month ago, our car broke down in a very small Texas town while on a long road trip from KY to AZ. We were stuck in this town for a couple of days waiting to get our car repaired. During our last day there, Marlin was beginning to get restless, so I took him out for a walk in one of the near by neighborhoods. As we were walking along, a pack of about 6 or 7 Chihuahuas came racing out from the property across the street, ran across the road where we were, and actually started to surround us, all looking genuinely aggressive and angry... In the past when dogs have run out at us, I normally just keep walking, but I couldn't. They were on all sides of us and began closing in. I'd stomp my feet at them, and yell at them to go away in a deep loud voice, and nothing was scaring them away... It sounds really funny, but it was actually really terrifying. Marlin stood between us and would rush at them when ever they started getting to close, but they would always come right back afterwards. If it hadn't of been for him, I'd of been bitten, and probably very badly. I'm surprised HE wasn't bitten to be honest. After about 30 seconds of this, the owners finally came running outside and tried to get the dogs, who were just running away from them, barking at us. Finally we were able to move forward and the owner replied "Sorry, they think they're big dogs" to which I replied "That's really scary, lady".
 

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Rcloud: eek! that sounds terrifying, honestly. Those Chi's were lucky it wasn't Charlotte you were walking! :p

Greater Swiss: I would turn it into a 'teaching' moment. Next time this situation happens, ask inquisitively why the instructor decided to pull Caeda out and not the smaller dog. I think in this situation it would be about tone. If it were me I would want to know.
 

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One of the reasons I love our current trainer so much is that she explains and expects acceptable behavior from ALL dogs and ALL people in her classes. It's different because this isn't an off-leash play group, it's obedience and agility for fun classes, but often when practicing things like tunnels or chutes in a group before we do the runs alone, people lose hold of their leashes.

A couple of classes ago there was a small poodle-ish mix that was clearly anxious of big dogs, and as the biggest dog in the class Squash was always his target. I tried to make sure we were always way across the room from them, but if he ever got loose he would zero in on and charge Squash no matter where we were, barking his fool head off. I have no idea if he actually would have latched on or bitten because I always managed to intercept him and step on or grab his leash before any physical contact was made, and Squash is so easygoing with other dogs that he never reacted to the charging at all, but it got annoying. After asking her to keep control of her leash several times the trainer eventually told her she just wasn't allowed to practice chutes and tunnels when we were in a group.

But yea, the owners didn't seem to take it very seriously. They kept saying "but he loves to play with big dogs in day care!" and I always wondered if he was actually "playing" with them or just chasing some patient large dogs around the room barking at them. :(
 

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Rcloud: eek! that sounds terrifying, honestly. Those Chi's were lucky it wasn't Charlotte you were walking! :p
As I was walking away from the scene, this is exactly what I was thinking. She would have been tossing those dogs like dirty laundry and I would have been powerless to stop her!
 

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As I was walking away from the scene, this is exactly what I was thinking. She would have been tossing those dogs like dirty laundry and I would have been powerless to stop her!
You have a dog you can't control around other dogs? Maybe she should wear a muzzle.
 

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You have a dog you can't control around other dogs? Maybe she should wear a muzzle.
Maybe other people should obey the leash laws, you know, like you're suppose too?
 

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From what I've gathered from RCloud's other posts, s/he is in control of Charlotte and is very aware of what situations she is placed in. I think that quote was a hyperbole.
I'm very in control of her. We can walk past other dogs in close proximity and she's just fine. It's just she's extremely protective and get's very aggressive towards other dogs who exhibit threatening behavior. And if a bunch of loose dogs come running up and circle us in an attempt to attack? Yeah, it's all over, and it's no one's fault but the owner of those dogs.
 

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Whoops, sorry I deleted my post when I saw you were responding already. It looks kind of funny now, oh well.

I think it's a lot to expect from any dog to not defend itself/its owner against aggressing dogs.
 

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I think it's a lot to expect from any dog to not defend itself/its owner against aggressing dogs.
I know a lot of dog friendly dogs who would go postal over other dogs exhibiting threatening behavior to themselves and their family. Charlotte exaggerates at times, but she's definitely not a dog that needs a muzzle nor is she a danger to the general public....so long as everyone obeys the leash laws.
 

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I have two small dogs that are very dog friendly but IF one or the other of them is threatened each one approaches the situation like 'the fight is on', protecting themselves or each other or me. I had one tossed and rolled by a young overexuberant lab/border collie mix a couple of weeks back (we were on leash and he was running about loose, darted out from behind a parked vehicle and caught us by surprise) and the other of mine went after that young boy with a good snarl and grabbed a cheek. Unfortunately most dogs are so much larger than them this it is not in their best interest.

You really can't expect dogs NOT to reacte to a rude approach like that.

SOB
 

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I have two small dogs that are very dog friendly but IF one or the other of them is threatened each one approaches the situation like 'the fight is on', protecting themselves or each other or me. I had one tossed and rolled by a young overexuberant lab/border collie mix a couple of weeks back (we were on leash and he was running about loose, darted out from behind a parked vehicle and caught us by surprise) and the other of mine went after that young boy with a good snarl and grabbed a cheek. Unfortunately most dogs are so much larger than them this it is not in their best interest.

You really can't expect dogs NOT to reacte to a rude approach like that.

SOB
Yep, from my experience, it seems to be a very natural reaction. Marlin is very dog friendly to, and yet he's raced to Charlotte's side a few times ready to kick some butt when it looked like she was in trouble.
 

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It's not really a rant about small dogs, it's a rant about owners. I have a small dog that is not friendly- in general. He does not like other dogs, so I do not let him get near other dogs.
 

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Heh, kinda curious I see this thread.

Today Homero was bullied :( . I felt bad cause I was close to him, but I did what I could as soon as I could.

I was gong to a friend´s house in which Ileft my cel phone and decided to take Homero so he gets a long walk and sniff out stuff he normaly wouldn´t. I knew my friend had a little dog ( I know little about dogs, so the race escapes me, bt I think its a kind of sausage dog(or whichever is the real name of the race :D ) ) but he generaly taks care to not let him get out when oppening the door. (Little dog´s name is milo)

When I enter I just wanted to stay in the door so he could get my cel and I could leave, (I am kinda paranoid on my dog being away from his normal pooping place and maybe wanting to go, so prefer not to enter shops and stuff with dog) so when the door gets open it was his mother and Milo did got out barking and all. I signald my dog with the leash to move away cause I was initialy concerned for Milo. As coward asmy dog may be, Milo is smaller and one bite from Homero I feared the worst. My friend´s mom shoutd Milo to come back and when he approached to much to my dog and I looked he was not replying the bark or the what-appeared-to-be little bittings on his side but I just shouted "Milo NO!" and manually holded him until the mother took him inside. Thankfully Milo didn´t tried to bite me.

I think Homero looks good so I hope he wasn´t biten or wasn´t bitten harsh at least (at least it didn´t left a mark). But well, kinda downer : /.

Also, I think Homero wasn´t afraid, but he was actually moving exactly as I moved him to with the leash (I tend to keep short leash and definetely had such in this scenario) in a way that seemed really control and also aware of Milo coming by. My conscience been running on that situation, but I think it wasn´t badly handled... Oh yeah, I did get my cel phone very shortlyafter n_nU

In any case, the chihuahuas thing doesn´t sound good at all. Thank god the owner came by, and yeah, its REALLY irresponsable to have your dogs without leash at least if there is a law on it, and at LEAST when there are SO MANY of them you are taking out at the same time. I mean, even if they are well behaved, one thing goes bad, and there are too many factors cause of that many dogs. It´s plain inviting for disaster u_u
 

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Seriously? Its not "smaller dogs." Its the people who don't train them.

I could say the same things about a number of large dogs in my neighborhood.
 

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You guys are profiling! LOL. It is totally on the owner. Dogs can not put on their own leashes. When I am walking my little dogs, big dogs go after them. When I am walking my big dogs, little dogs go after them. What I have noticed. The little dog owners laugh about how their dog is going after my big dog. Their little dog could be a Scooby snack to her. Lucky for these little guys she has kept her cool.
 

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What I cannot seem to fathom is no matter what size the dog ... if you really care for your dog ... why would you put them in a situation where they could be injured or killed? I agree and IMO it is the the person behind the leash where the problem lies.

Long story short - I would never take my small dogs off leash anywhere ... period! They have an attitude problem and I don't want it adjusted by anyone or anything but myself. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Those of you who are saying it is the owners and not the dogs, yeah, definitely true. I'm surprised in my situation that the trainer is allowing it, she isn't exactly a softy, nor the type that would allow small dogs to get away with being bad. I'm assuming there is something between her and the owner going on but I can't fathom what. I'm fine with her protecting the smaller dogs from Caeda if she gets over-exuberant. Caeda has actually learned to play reasonably well with smaller dogs and greet them well, it just goes further when the little one starts hanging from her jowels or biting hard at her.
There is another owner who comes to social with a tiny dog (I mentioned them in another thread, they brought their kid and tiny timid dog), who I actually heard say "I don't want this little guy getting little dog syndrome". I think I know what she meant, and I appreciate it.
I do agree that it is generally the owners but as for the small dog (rather than the owner) being the issue, I wonder if as much care is put into concerns over temperament when breeding smaller dogs since it at least appears that many small dog owners are far less worried about the possibility of aggressiveness. Yes, partially a nature vs nurture debate, but I know temperament is often a concern in breeding dogs.....but is it as much a concern for a smaller breed?
 
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