Puppy Forum and Dog Forums banner

1 - 6 of 6 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Ok - first, I've read all the potty training threads on this site that I can find and I see there's an absolute ton of them. That said, this is a little different (I think at least).

We have a 1 1/2 year old female pit and we've worked diligently with her on potty training, but she's still not "getting" it. Actually, she's a very smart dog so I tend to think it's more than just not "getting" it.

We take her on regular walks, reward her when she goes to the bathroom outside with treats and praise, we have attempted to crate train her and she just pees in the cage. :doh::doh::doh:

Here's my best theory, and I'd love to get some input from others on the site:

we got a male pit and a male doberman around the same time we got our femae pit (Gracie). The male was a large, dominant dog. He was definitely dominant over Gracie, but they were best friends too. Then, when we got the doberman, the male pit was often aggressive toward him. Long story short, we ended up rehoming the male pit because we were concerned for the safety of the doberman. The male pit was also aggressive towards us when we would try to make him do something he didn't want to do. We're familiar with the whole dominance and "pack leader" stuff and I definitely (I.M.O at least) was his leader. He knew who was in charge, but just didn't seem to be able to resist the aggression. He came from a back yard breeder and I think he had some bad genes. Regardless, we ended up rehoming him. Then the doberman ended up having severe anxiety issues because he had been "bullied" by the dominant pit. We tried anxiety meds and other stuff, but nothing worked. Unfortunately, he had to be re-homed as well due to an incident where our young daughter startled him and he nipped her.

So, we rehomed the two dogs and kept Gracie, the female pit. My "theory" is that somehow all of this mess with the first dog may have caused anxiety or some behavior issue and now she's acting out for some reason and purposely peeing all over the place? We've been dealing with this for quite some time. If I remember correctly, the peeing and pooping inside got worse when the 1st dominant male was rehomed.

Does anyone have any advice or experience with this type of behavior?

This dog literally WAITS for her opportunity to sneak into certain areas and pee and/or poop. She loves to pee in beds. She sneaks into our bedroom and pees in the bed. She sneaks into our children's rooms and pees and poops. And, I'm positive she waits for her opportunity and takes it. There's no accidents. She knows she's supposed to go outside and chooses not to. I'm sure there's times when she even holds it to do inside. We walk her, stay out with her, even chain her up in the back yard if she doesn't go outside and she just holds it until she gets inside. If we put her in her cage, she will pee in there.

I'm really hoping someone can give us some advice which will work. She's destroying our house. She's a sweet dog, loves everyone and great with the kids - not aggressive, just happy go lucky, but we're running out of options....

Sean

P.S. - Forgot to mention, she is spayed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,051 Posts
Ok - first, I've read all the potty training threads on this site that I can find and I see there's an absolute ton of them. That said, this is a little different (I think at least).

We have a 1 1/2 year old female pit and we've worked diligently with her on potty training, but she's still not "getting" it. Actually, she's a very smart dog so I tend to think it's more than just not "getting" it.

We take her on regular walks, reward her when she goes to the bathroom outside with treats and praise, we have attempted to crate train her and she just pees in the cage. :doh::doh::doh:
Does she pee on command? If not, you need to step up your supervision of peepee time. Stand close to her, repeat your command the entire time she is peeing, and then immediately stuff her face with at least 5 treats, one right after the other as you continue to say GOOD pee pee GOOOD peepee with every treat you give her. Do this for 14 solid days, and then you should be able to ask her to go pee on command.

Here's my best theory, and I'd love to get some input from others on the site:

we got a male pit and a male doberman around the same time we got our femae pit (Gracie). The male was a large, dominant dog. He was definitely dominant over Gracie, but they were best friends too. Then, when we got the doberman, the male pit was often aggressive toward him. Long story short, we ended up rehoming the male pit because we were concerned for the safety of the doberman. The male pit was also aggressive towards us when we would try to make him do something he didn't want to do. We're familiar with the whole dominance and "pack leader" stuff and I definitely (I.M.O at least) was his leader. He knew who was in charge, but just didn't seem to be able to resist the aggression. He came from a back yard breeder and I think he had some bad genes. Regardless, we ended up rehoming him. Then the doberman ended up having severe anxiety issues because he had been "bullied" by the dominant pit. We tried anxiety meds and other stuff, but nothing worked. Unfortunately, he had to be re-homed as well due to an incident where our young daughter startled him and he nipped her.

So, we rehomed the two dogs and kept Gracie, the female pit. My "theory" is that somehow all of this mess with the first dog may have caused anxiety or some behavior issue and now she's acting out for some reason and purposely peeing all over the place? We've been dealing with this for quite some time. If I remember correctly, the peeing and pooping inside got worse when the 1st dominant male was rehomed.

Does anyone have any advice or experience with this type of behavior?

This dog literally WAITS for her opportunity to sneak into certain areas and pee and/or poop. She loves to pee in beds. She sneaks into our bedroom and pees in the bed. She sneaks into our children's rooms and pees and poops. And, I'm positive she waits for her opportunity and takes it. There's no accidents. She knows she's supposed to go outside and chooses not to. I'm sure there's times when she even holds it to do inside. We walk her, stay out with her, even chain her up in the back yard if she doesn't go outside and she just holds it until she gets inside. If we put her in her cage, she will pee in there.

I'm really hoping someone can give us some advice which will work. She's destroying our house. She's a sweet dog, loves everyone and great with the kids - not aggressive, just happy go lucky, but we're running out of options....

Sean

P.S. - Forgot to mention, she is spayed.
She sneaks around because she has been punished for indoor elimination. You MUST prevent her access to these areas. You have the primate brain, so USE it. Close doors. Use baby gates. Get a very very large crate and use it like an expen. Line with newspaper in case she urinates in it. Give her ZERO CHANCE to sneak off and eliminate. Use the crate, leash her to your belt, whatever it takes.

Same with destruction. This is in general an indication that a dog needs more exercise. The dog MUST be prevented the chance to destroy things, and must also be provided with healthy interesting safe objects to vent chewing energy on.

Your dog will not learn NOT to go in your house until you begin to prevent her chance to do this, and step up your rewards for outdoor elimination. I would save table meat leftovers, cut them into small pieces, and use this for outdoor potty rewards.

Destructive chewing is a self rewarding behavior which builds on itself and generally escalates. Each time you fail to manage your dog, and allow this to happen, (and it is ALL because YOU ARE ALLOWING IT), it is exponentially more likely to happen again.

I would suggest another read through of the stickies. This is all in there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,902 Posts
Welcome to DF! First of all, I'm going to give you advice that worked for me when my almost 5yr old dog was a puppy. I'd take the dog to the vet, with a urine sample and stool sample first of all, make sure she is healthy. The first thing to realize is that any accidents your dog has are YOUR fault (you being the human). If a dog is not housebroken, they are absolutely not allowed on any furniture. Not allowed in any room you are not in. You said she pees in the crate. Is the crate too big for her? You need to keep her out of rooms. Yes you have kids, yes, it's a pain in the butt to keep doors closed but thats what you have to do. Take her out after she eats, sleeps and plays. Use a term she will learn when you take her out. I use "go potty". Every single time you take her out, as you exit the door, say "go potty". When she potties, throw a party. End the party with a treat. If she has an accident in the house, say "no" and take her right outside. You don't stop to put on shoes, to get a coat on. Out she goes. Yes, this is a pain in the butt as well. BTDT in the winter and I live in NH. If you have a fenced in area, she goes out on a leash each and every time. If you cannot keep her in the same room as you, with your eyes on her, crate her. She's an older dog, if she is healthy, it should be relatively easy to teach her. I hope it is. We got a 5mos old puppy 2.5 weeks ago and knock on wood, she's doing exceptional. I'll hold out hope for your gal!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Does she pee on command? If not, you need to step up your supervision of peepee time. Stand close to her, repeat your command the entire time she is peeing, and then immediately stuff her face with at least 5 treats, one right after the other as you continue to say GOOD pee pee GOOOD peepee with every treat you give her. Do this for 14 solid days, and then you should be able to ask her to go pee on command.
She does not pee on command. We have spent countless amounts of time trying to get her to pee on command and rewarding her with table scraps, bacon, ham, pot roast etc. Oddly enough, she doesn't seem to be very motivated by food rewards. We have yet to find a food that she just goes crazy over like most dogs. If we could get her to pee on command for a few days and build on it to 14 pls days, that would be great. We;ve tried, and I read your post about peeing on command and 14 days before I posted this thread. We just haven't been able to get to that point. It doesn't help that the dog doesn't seem very motivated by treats. She's a happy dog, not depressed, just doesn't seem highly motivated by treats.

[/QUOTE] She sneaks around because she has been punished for indoor elimination. You MUST prevent her access to these areas. You have the primate brain, so USE it. Close doors. Use baby gates. Get a very very large crate and use it like an expen. Line with newspaper in case she urinates in it. Give her ZERO CHANCE to sneak off and eliminate. Use the crate, leash her to your belt, whatever it takes.[/QUOTE]

The dog opens our doors by herself! Like I said, she's not stupid. We have the long style door handles, not round, and she just jumps up on them and opens them. We do have a large crate and use it consistently. We used to put sheets in it for her, but since she pees on them so much, we recently removed them for easier clean up and now it;s just plastic. Newspaper is an idea, but not solution to the problem. And we have kept her leashed when free in the house (she's rarely free) and done this for weeks at a time. She "seems" to get better, but then quickly reverts to old habits when let loose on a trial basis.

[/QUOTE]Same with destruction. This is in general an indication that a dog needs more exercise. The dog MUST be prevented the chance to destroy things, and must also be provided with healthy interesting safe objects to vent chewing energy on.

Your dog will not learn NOT to go in your house until you begin to prevent her chance to do this, and step up your rewards for outdoor elimination. I would save table meat leftovers, cut them into small pieces, and use this for outdoor potty rewards.

Destructive chewing is a self rewarding behavior which builds on itself and generally escalates. Each time you fail to manage your dog, and allow this to happen, (and it is ALL because YOU ARE ALLOWING IT), it is exponentially more likely to happen again. [/QUOTE]


Chewing/destructive chewing hasn't been an issue and wasn't mentioned as a problem in my post.

[/QUOTE] I would suggest another read through of the stickies. This is all in there.[/QUOTE]

Yes, what you wrote is in previous threads. It's common sense for the most part, definitely not rocket science. Unfortunately, I've tried what's in those posts and it hasn't worked. I do think that if I could find some food that motivated her we may get better results, but we've yet to find that. I'm also curious to know if anyoe thinks there could be any truth to the theory about the dominant dog that we rehomed. I read in a pit bull magazine at petsmart that that sometimes happens, exactly as described in the thread, but it DIDN'T tell how to fix the problem. I figure if it's in a breed specific magazine published and distributed worldwide, their must be some truth to it, and I was hoping someone on here had dealt with it and could give some advice specific to that issue (which ISN'T IN THE STICKIES!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
954 Posts
An idea for treats: the stinkier to us is usually the most appetizing to them. Following this logic, a dog accessory store near here carries dried fish. It is particularily stinky and my dogs LOVE it. Moght be worth a try.

One of my dogs is ambivalent towards food treats, but learns really well when I use attention as a reward (good boy, belly rubs, etc). basically, fins what makes her go nuts, could be a toy, could be attention, could be food, and work with it.

Good luck!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,615 Posts
A couple of questions: will she ever take treats from you? What's her body language like when she DOES go outside to pee and you are with her? How long is the leash that you use to walk her and have her pee outside? Is she a 'marker' rather than a full on pee-er? (Some females mark a lot, some do not and sometimes they even lift their legs to do so, but it looks different than with male dogs).

A couple of ideas:
Smaller crate. More frequent trips outside. A LONGER leash so she can have more space to pee and then you can TOSS the treat to her. Get hook and eye locks or something similar for the doors...MANAGEMENT IS KEY. So you'll just have to figure something out. Get Creative.

The reason I suggest a longer leash is this...From what you describe the dog sneaks off to pee. This likely means that peeing in front of you/humans is stressful for her..if you take her on a longer leash she has a better chance to be comfortable and you have a better chance for her to get her reward.

If she is a marker when outside on walks (frequent short pees) it is very possible that the peeing in the house is stress urination, just like in males, marking increases when the animal is stressed. So take a look at her life from her point of view. How much exercise does she get? Does she get to run free at all? Is she in an enforced heel the entire walk or does she get to do her thing? What sort of mental stimulation does she get..FUN MENTAL TRAINING like learning tricks or doing obedience that is rewarded with the toss of a ball, a flirt pole or a game of tug?

She has also lost two companions in pretty short order. What have you done to fill the hole this has created?
Pits are WORKING dogs and can be physically tough, but they are a hell of a lot more sensitive than people give them credit. They need a firm but gentle hand and a chance to work. Alpha schmalpha...
 
1 - 6 of 6 Posts
Top