Feeding Raw - Where to Start?
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  1. #41
    Senior Member Active Dog's Avatar
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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    Honestly its not a question of what is "best" because like you said for some dogs ol roy is great! However I have not been able to see the same change in my dog on kibble as I had with raw. On raw she hardly shed (now its every other day vacuuming), her allergies went away, and she needed baths less. Also I am sure you noticed the difference in type of poop after feeding Orijen. Well raw poop is very small and compact, it looks even healthier than premium kibble poop.

    All that being said it takes a LOT of research, I researched it for about 6 months. I know some people have done research for years on this forum. However if you did want to try it out everyone here has fantastic advice! When I joined a year ago I had no idea what raw was, but with all the people on the forum able to help me out I learned a lot!

    (PS the reason I stopped doing raw was because we moved and the freezer doesn't have enough space to accommodate all the meat.)

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  3. #42
    Senior Member MagicRe's Avatar
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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    for me, the difference is night and day...i researched for almost a year....there isn't a day that goes by that i wish i had done this when my shih tzus were puppies....

    but i can tell you i will never ever go back....my last original dog who was started out on kibble and is now fed raw just turned eleven. she's been raw fed for almost a year...and even after a user error rocky beginning, the difference in her is obvious to everyone who knows her, so i know it's not just me.

    her teeth are pure white.
    her coat is brilliant and blindlingly shiny and black and thick
    she acts like she's five, not eleven and can keep up with my three year old pug.
    her health is excellent
    she is muscular
    she has energy

    i cannot give you scientific proof, as so many people want...i can only give you anecdotal objective observation about a dog whom i've had for all of her life....

    i cannot say if she will live longer; but, i can see she lives better.

    and, there are people who live into their nineties, and they smoke and drink and eat everything wrong and that's just their genetics and good for them....

    but it's russian roulette to think that they eat and smoke and eat junk because they had a crystal ball...the body is fantastic at trying to adapt to anything thrown at it, including that which is unhealthy..sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

    with raw....i may not extend her life, but i fervently believe i am improving her quality as long as she lives...and that's what counts...for me.

  4. #43
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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    It was night and day for Max. On any kibble he was not stinky or itchy but he lacked muscle mass and his coat was eh. On raw he gained 5 pounds of muscle, his coat is like velvet and grows much longer. His temperament improved too, less anxious, although he is a super nervous dog anyway. I discovered he is sensitive to grains and gets goopy eyes if he gets into something grainy! I also prefer to feed food that is less processed as it just seems wrong to feed such a dry diet as 10% moisture kibble to animals year after year.

    Forgot about the teeth. I was giving him a raw meaty bone weekly already for that. Much cheaper and safer than dental cleanings.

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  6. #44
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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    Thank you all for your info. I'm glad you have seen such great results. I don't mean to sound uneducated when I say is raw food "better" than premium quality kibble. I should've said I am interested in anyone's opinions. Just looking on here today, the raw diet definitely seems like something you don't want to get into until you research it for a while and become fully educated on the issue. With that said, I am definitely interested in it for my shih tzu. He's only a little over two, and I thought giving him Orijen was a great first step in giving him healthy, premium quality kibble. I have noticed his stool is a lot more solid and the color has changed to a darker color (sorry, don't mean to be gross ) I'm assuming this is a good thing. Is this due to the higher protein content, being that Orijen's protein is 38%?

    Nonetheless, it's nice to read from dog owners on here and know that there are those in the world that care so much for animals (not to say that those that don't feed raw diet don't care lol). I always feel so bad when I hear of animal abuse, especially dogs because I'm a huge dog lover. It's comforting to read such great stuff on this site. Thanks for all the info.

    And Magic, I actually just made that analogy regarding people smoking and drinking their entire lives when I was talking about dog food with a few people that also were interested in the raw diet. Thanks
    Last edited by kyle6286; 01-04-2011 at 01:34 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  7. #45
    Senior Member MagicRe's Avatar
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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    Quote Originally Posted by kyle6286 View Post
    Thank you all for your info. I'm glad you have seen such great results. I don't mean to sound uneducated when I say is raw food "better" than premium quality kibble. I should've said I am interested in anyone's opinions. Just looking on here today, the raw diet definitely seems like something you don't want to get into until you research it for a while and become fully educated on the issue. With that said, I am definitely interested in it for my shih tzu. He's only a little over two, and I thought giving him Orijen was a great first step in giving him healthy, premium quality kibble. I have noticed his stool is a lot more solid and the color has changed to a darker color (sorry, don't mean to be gross ) I'm assuming this is a good thing. Is this due to the higher protein content, being that Orijen's protein is 38%?

    Nonetheless, it's nice to read from dog owners on here and know that there are those in the world that care so much for animals (not to say that those that don't feed raw diet don't care lol). I always feel so bad when I hear of animal abuse, especially dogs because I'm a huge dog lover. It's comforting to read such great stuff on this site. Thanks for all the info.

    And Magic, I actually just made that analogy regarding people smoking and drinking their entire lives when I was talking about dog food with a few people that also were interested in the raw diet. Thanks

    you sound like a huge dog lover, and you just want what's best for your dog.....totally understandable...just don't get too hung up on numbers...look more toward the ingredients and the processing....

    my dogs eat raw, but raw is lower in protein percentage than what you're feeding....about 18-21%....mainly because, like humans, animals are made up of more water than anything else....

    keep in mind what part of kibble is an ad campaign and what part makes sense....and i don't think you sound uneducated...asking questions is how we all come to whatever conclusions we can live with....: )

  8. #46
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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRe View Post
    her teeth are pure white.
    her coat is brilliant and blindlingly shiny and black and thick
    she acts like she's five, not eleven and can keep up with my three year old pug.
    her health is excellent
    she is muscular
    she has energy

    i cannot give you scientific proof, as so many people want...i can only give you anecdotal objective observation about a dog whom i've had for all of her life....

    i cannot say if she will live longer; but, i can see she lives better.

    My thoughts exactly. While I don't feed raw in the most literal sense, the food I'm feeding now is dehydrated raw food (and it's as expensive as heck, but when trying to do it the literal way - actual raw food - Wally loved it, but wasn't getting enough food and with the only food sources out here in the suburbs being grocery stores...)

    It's a night and day difference even over Innova, and I thought that food was the bomb.

    Coat has never been softer, breath not stinky, nice teeth, full of energy and strength (such that it is in a 12lb dog).

    Wally's latent learning position.

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  9. #47
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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    Bluestaffy, I pay $1 or less for poultry and less than $2 for red meat. I cannot see the prices on the list to help with specifics, sorry. All you want for starters is chicken. Whole carcasses with all the meat are what you are looking for so you can cut them into meals yourself. So if you can find nice red meats for about double the price of whole chicken and the price of the two combined is about half what you pay for kibble per pound you might be looking pretty good. Ideally you would be feeding about half red meat, some fatty fish, some organs and the rest bony chicken.

    Max would eat 4-6 ounces of kibble a day and he eats 10 ounces of raw. While raw has water in it, it is also nutrient dense with loads of fat that kibble hasn't. If your combined meat prices cost about half per pound what you are paying for kibble I suspect raw would be a better deal.

  10. #48
    Senior Member MagicRe's Avatar
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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueStaffy View Post
    That pic is 2 months old, he is 7 months and can chew through anything. He is a Staffy, if you know them you know a fist size anything is just fine.

    Unfortuantly i can not talk to this butcher, they speak Very little English and my Cantonnese is even worse.

    Thanks for the tips, ill visit a few more butchers today.

    Cheers

    here's the thing...i know staffies...love the breed, by the way....he must be gorgeous...

    let me digress -- if you know pugs, you know they have wide mouths, but their tracheas are small just like a small dog....there are good eaters and stupid eaters or gulpers...until you know what kind of dog you have...my pug was a stupid eater/gulper.....and the first thing he did was swallow a drumstick whole. did not gnaw. crunch. nothing.

    so size does matter and fist size for a staffy might be too small....the idea is, if you decide to do this, is to get them to work...

    and whilst i cannot speak for others, my mentor started my dogs on chicken backs...yes, they are bony....but they were stripped of excess fat, organs and skin....to give them time to adapt...the excess bone was to keep the stools stable because my dogs had a very rocky start....user error

    if you follow other plans, generally people with larger dogs are told to buy a whole chicken and cut it into four parts....watch the stools...if the stools are like hershey squirts, no worries. add more bone...if the stools are solid, you're doing well...if the stools are too crunchy, take some bone away...

    you'd be feeding chicken, bone in for about a week or so...until he stabilises and you're satisfied.....so chicken is where you'd start....you move very slowly so as to give him a chance to adapt from his teeth to his digestive tract....move on to turkey next, then pork if you can, then fish, and then red meat....and finally offal, such as liver....about five per cent of his overall diet should be liver (acts like vitamins) and the other five per cent should be either kidney or spleen or pancreas or another offal....

    the guideline is 80% (Protein) 5 % liver and 5% other kind of offal....

    it's a step by step program and the place to ask your questions is here....because there are raw feeders even more experienced than i who would be glad to help....

  11. #49
    Senior Member MagicRe's Avatar
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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    how much does he weigh and how much do you expect him to weigh....

    if you're doing barf...then make sure you puree the veggies and fruits...if that's the route you're going...since i don't feed my dogs the barf model, i'll leave it to someone who does to advise you if you need it...

    beef tongue is wonderful...and if he's use to eating meat and his stools are good, then feed it...

    you want to be able to give as much variety as possible....but you have to feed what you can afford and what you set your price point at for both dogs.

    my dogs are small...they eat a pound a day between the two of them....so i can set my price point higher...my friend has five dogs and feeds 23 pounds a day....her price point is lower and she shops for as many sales as she can...

    it gets to be fun to do so......chasing sales, joining co ops if you can find them...going straight to the distributor or making a deal with the butcher...

    veal is wonderful....the one thing you want to watch out for is how the bone is cut....if you can get veal bone...from the breast or the neck or anywhere....your dogs will love you...it depends on how the butcher cuts the bone...if they are sharp...then your dogs could cut themselves...

    otherwise....veal bone is good.....and, since veal is a lightweight calf...you could feed legs and tongue and well, just about any part of a calf...especially the ribs...

    beef ribs - i'd save for later...might have too much fat on them...in the beginning...but for my dogs, at least, they make a great teeth cleaner...

    i don't know about the pork sanitation laws where you are....ask...because the only countries that pork is eaten without fear of disease are mostly in the west, like the US and Canada.....

    fish is good, but freeze it for a few weeks to a month....even in the usa, i freeze everything...just to make sure there are no parasites....try to buy wild fish, rather than farm fed, since farm fed is not as nutritious....

    eggs - raw....we feed them once a week...

    just remember to go slowly with sydney and watch the poops for stabilisation...that he's young should make it easier....and have fun...always have fun..

    congrats on coco!! good on you for starting her out on raw.....does the beef mince and chicken mince have any bone in it? she'll need that for her calcium needs and other minerals....plus it acts as fibre to firm up those stools..

  12. #50
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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    Is it ok to grind my dog's food, bone included like the pre-made BARF style patties? He gets his teeth brushed daily, and I will still give him a few recreational bones a week for teeth cleaning purposes.

  13. #51
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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    Quote Originally Posted by EtherealJane View Post
    Is it ok to grind my dog's food, bone included like the pre-made BARF style patties? He gets his teeth brushed daily, and I will still give him a few recreational bones a week for teeth cleaning purposes.
    i think grinding food kind of defeats the purpose, but many people grind their dog's foods with the bone....problem is, the type of grinder you'd need for anything other than chicken would be very expensive....

    you won't ever need to brush his teeth again if you feed a prey model raw....

    what kind of recreational bones do you give? because, if they are marrow or soup bones, you run the risk of damaging his teeth...

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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    Hi everyone,

    I'm just starting to look into raw feeding for my dogs, so bear with me if this has already been asked. But is there any neeed for me to be worried about pathogens in raw meats (E. coli, etc.), or can dogs digestive systems actually process this stuff with no problems?



  15. #53
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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    Quote Originally Posted by TwoDogMommy View Post
    Hi everyone,

    I'm just starting to look into raw feeding for my dogs, so bear with me if this has already been asked. But is there any neeed for me to be worried about pathogens in raw meats (E. coli, etc.), or can dogs digestive systems actually process this stuff with no problems?
    a dog's digestive tract is highly acidic. e.coli and salmonella are everywhere, including dry kibble.....but they have the power to destroy salmonella and e.coli, as well as any other bacterias on food....

    how far have you gotten in your consideration of feeding raw?

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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicRe View Post
    a dog's digestive tract is highly acidic. e.coli and salmonella are everywhere, including dry kibble.....but they have the power to destroy salmonella and e.coli, as well as any other bacterias on food....

    how far have you gotten in your consideration of feeding raw?
    Not very far.. I just perused this thread today as a place to start. On some of the recommended links I saw that yes, dogs can handle a certain amount of meat bacteria that humans can't. I am going to do more research into raw feeding though before I make a decision. Right now our boys are eating premium kibble and not-so-premium canned stuff mixed in with it. At this point I can see giving them a few raw marrow bones a week to chew on for teeth cleaning, but I'm not committed to a raw diet just yet.

    Thanks for replying!



  17. #55
    Senior Member MagicRe's Avatar
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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    sure, no problem.....happy to help out...if i may caution you against marrow bones...they are from a weight bearing animal (cow) and as such, the bone is very dense...what's in the bone, marrow, is very fatty and raw, and many dogs get the runs from it...dogs who are not used to eating raw.

    secondly, the density of the bone can and has fractured many a tooth...and to those who are feeding them, it's just a matter of time before something happens....in my humble opinion, marrow bones or any femur or leg bone from a cow...just not worth it....

  18. #56
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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    Thanks for the advice..

    What would you suggest instead.. livers? Gizzards? What about chicken legs or turkey drumsticks?



  19. #57
    Senior Member MagicRe's Avatar
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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    if you're feeding kibble, i'd suggest a bully stick or an antler....

    if you want, buy some beef ribs and strip most of the meat and fat off or you'll give your dogs diarrhea.....and they'll love gnawing on them. don't leave them out too long for they will dry and get brittle and that's exactly opposite of what you want.

    but i would not give them raw edible bone if you're feeding kibble, although some do...and if you were to do so, you could give them a chicken wing, which is more bone than meat, so they won't get the runs....shih tzus can always use something to clean their teeth.

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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    Thanks MagicRe.



  21. #59
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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    I have a question, I feed kibble & want to continue that way (I know I have posted this question elsewhere but I wanted to put it where it was most appropriate) but I want to supplement their diet with raw, how do I go about doing this & what meat should I use? I want something I can mix into their kibble would it be ok to try eggs instead of yogurt which I have read is bad for them, we have farm chickens so eggs are NP for us to come by lol.

  22. #60
    Senior Member MagicRe's Avatar
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    Re: Feeding Raw - Where to Start?

    personal opinion only, but i would not mix kibble with raw....simply because of the digestion differences, time wise...

    why not just scramble an egg or give some cooked with the kibble....if you want to add to their diet...

    if you want to feed raw as a supplement, i would feed one meal raw, one meal kibble....it's pretty easy to do...start with a chicken leg quarter for brekkie...and kibble for dinner....once the dog is used to the chicken leg quarter, then progress to a pork rib and then lamb ribs, and for fun, beef ribs...although they won't be able to eat the actual bone....

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