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APRI vs. AKC registration?

227K views 89 replies 31 participants last post by  Pai 
#1 ·
I just purchased an APRI shiba puppy. She's registered with America's Pet Registry, Inc. Both of her parents come from a champion bloodlines. Can I get her registered with AKC. What's a difference between the 2? Is AKC more reputable?
 
#2 · (Edited)
The only reputable registries on this continent are the AKC, UKC, and CanKC (not to be confused with the ConKC). Unfortunately, you have purchased a puppy from a BYB, registered with a BYB registry. Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but at least you will know now. >-.-<

Also, for future reference, champion bloodlines mean nothing without champion sire and dam. BYBs can get their hands on dogs with good backgrounds and churn out lots of badly-bred pups out of unfinished dogs.
 
#4 ·
No, you can not have the dog registered with the AKC, unless both the dam and sire are also registered with the AKC. Unfortunately, as others have mentioned, APRI is garbage. Do as Keno's Mom said, and have your dog spayed, per your vet's recommendation. In the meantime, give her the best life possible, and learn all that you can about how to buy a pup, for the future. We don't say these things to be rude or mean, but there is a lot to learn about how to buy a "registered" pup, and the more you can learn the better. BTW, welcome to our forum!
 
#5 ·
There are some breeds (such as the Chinook and Alaskan Husky) which are not yet included as a breed with in the AKC. However, the Shiba Inu is included, and any pups of quality born in America should be registered in the AKC.

My questions for you are:

How do you know that the parents are champs? Shibas are not necessarily a "rare" breed, but they are somewhat uncommon. If your pup's dam and sire are champs, then other people in the Shiba show scene would have heard of them, or your breeder. Is her kennel name well known?

If you do not know if the kennel is reputable, send an e-mail to the Shiba Inu Club of America. Just google that, and its website should pop up. They will typically know all the bad/good breeders with in their specialty.

Is you pup supposed to have show potential? If it is, you cannot show her unless she is AKC registered.

My first instinct is to tell you that you've probably been "had" with this breeder. Just as with any other business, there are people in the dog world who will scam you, too.

Make sure you get your pup checked out by a vet, and then spay or neuter her/him.

I'm really sorry for what's happened. I can only imagine how it must feel. *hug*
 
#8 ·
This is not true! APRI is a legitimate registry. You must in fact have a pedigree to register a dog with APRI. Just because your dog is APRI does not make it trash. APRI holds conformation shows. Every registry has unethical people in it. It is not the registry that is unethical it is the people who have their dogs restistered with them. I have a friend that has a very nice bitch, she showed her with APRI and got a champion title, then went on to show with AKC. She could not get any points to save her life with AKC. She was talking to someone at a show and they told her that she in fact had a very nice bitch. She was at a loss and told the lady it didn't seem like it because she could not get any points on the dog. The lady told her that she was going about it the wrong way that she had to hire a handler. So she did and now she has an AKC champion title on her bitch. APRI points out a dog on breed standard not against other dogs or who has the dog in the ring. With APRI is it all about the dog, not who you know. You can not get together with a few of your friends and put in ringers to champion out your dog with APRI. You can not look at who is going to judge the dog and go with your favorite judges. Either your dog has what it takes or not. BYB and Pm do not take the time to show dogs. Also with APRI all dogs that show are required to have a Health Certificate and proof of shots by a vet. Also before a dog can show with APRI they must be micro chipped. At the time of the show the microchip is scanned and a DNA is taken before any points are awarded. None of this is required by AKC.
 
#9 · (Edited)
All I can say is visit the AKC website and the APRI website and make up your own mind who's more legit or not. In my mind, the difference is obvious and the discussion could stop there. But I'm sorry, the APRI is not recognized in other coutries, for the US, only the AKC is. And I'd like to know how DNA can be taken before points are awarded? Does that mean no one gets point until after 3 days when the DNA tests are done? Because unless the APRI's science is different or the tests are not regulated, DNA tests don't happen on the spot or over night. And who's paying for all these tests? Please educate me on this. I will admit one thing though...Elsa's APRI papers made for a good bird cage liner.
 
#10 ·
FYI, here is the AKC DNA profile program:

DNA Profile Program

The AKC DNA Profile Program brings cutting-edge parentage testing technology to AKC customers. A cheek swab brush is used to collect the DNA sample from the dog, and returned to the AKC. The sample is processed by AKC's DNA service provider, MMI Genomics, and the resulting genotype is entered into the AKC DNA Database. The information is used to verify parentage of AKC dogs and for genetic identity purposes. This technology allows breeders, dog owners, and the AKC to ensure that the AKC Registry is the most accurate in the world.
DNA Profiling is required for stud dogs whose semen is collected for fresh-extended or frozen or frozen use. AKC DNA Profiling is also required for Frequently Used Sires, effective for litters whelped on or after July 1, 2000, and for imported breeding stock registered on or after March 1, 2006.

The dog owner will receive an AKC DNA Profile for each dog sampled. Additionally, for dogs individually registered at the time the DNA sample is received by the AKC, the DNA Profile Number will be added to that dog's registration record, and will appear on all Registration Certificates and Pedigrees issued in the future.

Dogs who have already processed their DNA through MMI Genomics can transfer their DNA records through the "DNA record transfer program" so the dog can become AKC DNA Profiled.
DNA Profiling may be used to determine the correct sire of a litter before registering that litter, such as in cases where the dam was exposed to more than one male during her season. Additionally, the AKC can register litters with more than one sire. Follow this link for more information about this policy.
For further information about this or other DNA programs, contact AKC DNA Operations.



Suspiciously, I can't find anything on APRI's DNA profiling. Hmmmm, that's odd. I could use some help with this.
 
#11 ·
K9LVR, you are right, there are unethical people in all associations and the AKC is not imune. I'm sure that some people are out there falsely promoting their pups with AKC papers. But APRI seems to be promoting this. I was just looking at their web site to see what they are about and they even have a service to register dogs that are born to unregistered parrents. This certianly seems like a way for almost anyone to get 'papers' for their dog to make their pups seem more valuable to puppy buyers. I agree that AKC dog shows really seem so subjective that it's hard to say only AKC pointed dogs should be breed, but I do think only quality dogs should be. The AKC papers don't guarantee a quality dog, but it seems APRI papers don't even guarantee the dogs pure bred.
 
#12 ·
I took a look at the APRI website out of curiousity. They don't accept the mixed breeds (like cockapoo/pekeapoo/labradoodle, etc.) They do have some dogs that are in the "rare" breeds and might be in other countries, not AKC dogs.

HOWEVER, in looking further, under there "shows"/winners, etc. They have something about winning free dogs. And if you check out the people winners, many of those people got their free dogs from places like PETLAND and some others that I highly suspect of getting puppy mill/byb dogs and not legit sources.

So I've come to the conclusion that APRI is not a good place to get a dog and it still comes back to an association that deals/accepts dogs out of puppy mills registries.

No where does the FAQ say that APRI dogs can be registered in AKC, but it does accept AKC dogs to be registered in APRI. I honestly think they will not be around long. I can't even find a legit "show" calendar with upcoming shows - seems they hold a few shows but that's about it. I don't see anything regarding judges, etc. So it might be matches they are calling shows.

Personally I would NOT have anything to do with them.
 
#15 · (Edited)
I honestly think they will not be around long.
You don't know how much I wish this were true! But unforunately Missouri, where Elsa was rescued from a puppy mill...and would have had APRI papers, has passed some laws to protect commercial breeders. The State Senator in the South West part of the State has pushed this through. The Hunte Corp building is a 100,000 sq ft facility that has "helped" the ecomomy in that part of the state...and they are a mass producing puppy machine. Missouri as with numerous other States look at dog breeding as a cash crop just like cattle, corn.... I mean no offense to Missourians, Missouri is just where Hunte Corp is located. Just search Hunte Corp in your search engine and read about all the garbage they do with pups. And isn't it ironic that most of the APRI shows are in Missouri? Coincidence? Not in my mind. And until APRI is recognized by other countries, they, along with the thousands of other pet and dog registries, are garbage. And unfortunately it is true, that even AKC papers don't mean anything, and they, along with APRI papers, can be manufactured by anyone. That's why it's so important to learn the right way to buy a pup. I don't mean to be so opinionated about APRI, or maybe I do, but either way, I owe it to Elsa.
 
#13 ·
You can find the requirments for show by going here http://www.aprpets.org/main/dogshows.html
It will tell you that DNA must be done. AKC has DNA but only for breeding.
APRI does have a drawing to win a free puppy, how that works is when you buy a puppy from where ever, show breeder or pet store you send in the paper work and if your name is drawn you win the cash amount that you paid for the puppy. But if you look in the pet stores you will see far more puppies with AKC papers.
The service to register pups with unregistered parents is not APRI please do not confuse that. It is a pet service and that is it.
They even have a code of ethics AKC leaves it up to the breed clubs for that. AKC it self does not say do not sell your puppies to brokers it is the breed clubs that do that.
I just get upset when people do not use a service and talk bad about because they do not know anything about it.
AKC and APRI are both good in my book
 
#14 ·
Oh let me touch base on the judge thing. There is no list of what judges will be judging your dog. You do not know till you get to the show. But to get enough points to champion out your dog must be seen by 9 judges. All 9 judges must agree that your dog is of breed standard.
 
#16 ·
A breed show or registration type show is only as good as the compitition who enter and the quality of the judges they use. So personally I do not care what registry it is if that registry does not have the best compitions for what you are doing it really does not matter. From what I have seen of AKC there is no way to find out what a dog has produced and to me that is a big mistake. When looking for a quality animal I want to know what they have done what they have produced and what their family line has done and produced all 4 lines 4 generations back and this can not be done with any dog registry and until this is done I really do not see where any dog registry is worth much.

Heidi
 
#17 ·
If you feel you like the other registry, then use it. But IMO its still related more to the puppy mills then you might think.

I SERIOUSLY doubt that a APRI dog that went to AKC got registered in AKC unless it already had dual registration (AKC first). APRI is a service company that branched out into registering dogs and cats.

If you notice there are very few breeds of cats that are "registered" by APRI....gee I wonder why?

You'd be surprised at the number of so-called registries out there that are used by puppy mills or byb's. The only legit ones are AKC and CKC (Canadian Kennel Club) (and maybe some from overseas) BUT anything else is highly questionable.
 
#18 ·
AKC vs APRI

Just to be clear for anyone that may be a first time puppy buyer : just because your puppy has AKC registration does not guarantee that it doesn't come from a PuppyMill! AKC does not regulate breeders or breeding practices. Your local PetLand or other petstore will most likely have puppies registered with AKC, CKC, ACA, and APRI.
 
#19 ·
Sad, isn't it?

Just like anything else, a consumer must research before they purchase.

People are just naive, I think. Or, they just hear what they want to hear, in regards to pets.

They look at the first cute puppy they find, and regardless of what's in the pedigree or where it came from, they take it home and try to force it into their family structure.

Then, the puppy gets sick/ mean and then it goes to the shelter, and all of the regesteries in the world won't save that poor pup then.

Sure, I'm glad my pup is AKC. In fact, I wouldn't buy from a breeder who didn't register their litters with the AKC. But that's only one, small part of the research it takes when picking out a puppy.
 
#21 ·
This is true. This is why the breeder probably needs to be more carefully picked out then the puppy.

And, you CAN research bloodlines- there is usually a breed data base which contains information on all dogs registered with in it.

Also, if you go to dog shows and strike up a conversation with a breeder (who isn't in the middle of grooming, or walking) then you can set up a time to meet with them to discuss the questions you have a bout the breed.

They don't know you from Adam, so they'll likely be forthcoming when it comes to what you can expect. Usually, different kennels will carry different lines. If you can ascertain that the kennel is reputable, you can call and ask them about their particular dogs, and they should disclose any and all health problems, or other problems in their dogs.
 
#23 ·
Keno's Mom, the bitch was registered with both. The breeder felt that if she went with both sets of papers that it would leave more options for my friend to show her with what ever club she wanted. She sells all of her puppies this way. And to be honest I really wish I was into the breed that she has. Because I have met this lady and if I were to buy a puppy again it would be from her. My friend took me to her house when she had a litter of pups, the pups were already spoken for but the breeder loves it when people and past puppy buyers just want to come see the new litters, so she will welcome any one to come. We got there and the puppies were in an xpen in the living room. We sat on the couch and 4 other dogs jumped up to sit in our laps and to be petted. She has a display case that proudly displays all of her winnings from both AKC and APRI.
This breeder was so sweet and so nice she sold me on APRI. Her dogs are all registered with both AKC and APRI she has never sold to a broker. I have since registered my dogs with both clubs and show with both clubs. And I am not the only one, I see lots of the same faces at the APRI shows that I do at the local AKC shows.
All I am saying here is, the job of the service is to keep records on pure bred dogs, offer pedigrees and hold conformation shows. Just because your dog is only registered with one service does not make it a good or bad dog. There are wonderful APRI dogs as well as there are realy bad AKC dogs. The papers that your puppy comes with does not mean it is a nice healthy well adjusted pup, or that it is a sick unhealthy have to have it fixed right now and you got taken by a breeder puppy.
So to answer the first question on here. If your puppy is APRI that does not make it a bad pup. Do what everyone should do. Take the pup to the vet make sure it is healthy, watch it grow give it lots of love and attention. Train your puppy make sure he or she has good manners. And by all means if your pup has what it takes and if you both enjoy showing, get out there have some fun and go to some shows. Just because you show a dog, that does not mean you have to breed the dog. Showing can be a really fun family event. And when I say family I do mean family dog included. Do not let the snobs of the dog world scare you away from it. Follow your heart not the words of others.
 
#24 ·
I guess my question is this: would it be easier for a puppy mill to register with APRI, or with the AKC?

I realize that the registry doesn't make the dog. I just would think that going with the main stream would be the way to go.

If the APRI has so many shows, why haven't I heard of them? I mean...you get the AKC Eukenuba, and the Westminster, all of which show AKC registered dogs.

Can you have an APRI champion and show him/her at Westminster? Does that APRI have anything like the Eukenuba?
 
#25 ·
I believe in recent years (this from AKC breeders) that AKC has cracked down about the puppy mills registering...making it harder or something. So they went to the "alternative" registries or created them. Many of them are so fake. One even went so far to print you pretty certificates for your dog - they registered anything and everything - no matter what it was.

I've never heard of ARPI before till now. I have heard of the puppy mill CKC (Continental Kennel Club) which is a notorious puppy mill registry. In fact, I just recently went in a local pet shop and noticed that all the puppies in there were CKC registered! I was in a hurry but one day will act dumb and question what is CKC...when they tell me, I will simply tell them "do you know that is a puppy mill registry?"

And again, the website doesn't say you can take your ARPI dog and have it registered in AKC....however they do say your AKC dog can be registered in ARPI!
 
#83 ·
ckc

I've never heard of ARPI before till now. I have heard of the puppy mill CKC (Continental Kennel Club) which is a notorious puppy mill registry. In fact, I just recently went in a local pet shop and noticed that all the puppies in there were CKC registered! I was in a hurry but one day will act dumb and question what is CKC...when they tell me, I will simply tell them "do you know that is a puppy mill registry?"
I really don't want to get into this, however.......
Although I would never register my dogs with CKC, it is NOT a registry just for pms. I am offended.
You can do agility, obediance, and a lot more with CKC. I think it is nice that there is an org. like CKC because kids that have mutts that want to be competitive but can't because their dog is not registered with AKC and can't be, they can still compete, have fun, and with a mutt.
That is all I have to say on this topic. I am moving on, and am not going to post again in this topic. I just wanted to give my 2 cents on CKC.
Thank you and goodbye.
loverofdogs
 
#26 ·
Snowshoe
I guess my question is this: would it be easier for a puppy mill to register with APRI, or with the AKC?
Answer: Well it is the same all you do is fill out an application to register a litter of puppies and send in the money to do so.
I realize that the registry doesn't make the dog. I just would think that going with the main stream would be the way to go.
Answer: Just because most people choose to jump off the Brooklyn Bridge does that mean one can not jump from the Golden Gate Bridge.
If the APRI has so many shows, why haven't I heard of them? I mean...you get the AKC Eukenuba, and the Westminster, all of which show AKC registered dogs.
Answer. Well maybe you have had blinders on and have not looked for them. How many AKC shows are out there that you have no idea are being held unless you look? Would you know about Westminster or Eukenuba if they were not televised.
Can you have an APRI champion and show him/her at Westminster? Does that APRI have anything like the Eukenuba?
Answer: Yes. We have a breeder that did in fact show her dog at Westminster and also showed him with APRI. But her dog is registered with both as well. And to answer the second half of that question. Yes they do. It is called Parade of Champions, it is an invitational show only. Just like the other two there is prize money at this one. But remember when you show your dog with both they must be registered with both. AKC does not accept an APRI Champion. So you must show with both clubs to get your champion titles with both clubs.
In fact the show is this weekend, in Branson. Come on out you may just be suprised to see who is there, might be a few AKC show people you know.
This is my last post on this subject, the good old AKC and APRI argument can go on forever just as the evolution vs creation argument. All we can do is read, learn, see, and feel to come up with our own conclusion.
 
#27 ·
i have a couple ?'s .......first, you all are saying that the only legit registries in the States is AKC and CKC (Can.)......i beg to differ on that.....my 3 BC are reg. ABCA and have ISDS reg background as well (that's American Border Collie Assoc. and International Sheepdog Society reg) so you're saying that these are not legit?.......wrong......they just don't focus on the conformation showing of the dog, they judge the working abilities.....

also, this kinda concerns me as well.....

DNA Profiling may be used to determine the correct sire of a litter before registering that litter, such as in cases where the dam was exposed to more than one male during her season. Additionally, the AKC can register litters with more than one sire. Follow this link for more information about this policy.
if this is allowed, where does responsible breeding take place.....to me, if there is more than one sire to the litter than the registries should be cancelled out.....this, IMHO, is bad breeding.....that bitch should NEVER be exposed to more than one sire at the time of her heat......and i know this has been going on since....well, forever....anyways, but the knowing of the different sires doesn't make it any more right or ethical.....to me it means a breeder that isn't careful of his/her breeding habits.....
 
#28 ·
When I said about AKC, UKC (I had forgot about them :)) and CKC being legit, I was not talking about the individual breed specialty clubs/associations. Those are totally different. AKC/UKC/CKC are ALL breed associations.

The other associations that register dogs are usually used by puppy mills/byb's cause they don't have as strict rules. Someone posted a link regarding the "other" associations so you know what it puppy mill registries.

This is the link:

http://winddreamer.net/labfiles/alternative_dog_registries.html

Now you can make up your own mind about APRI, since its in the list of puppy mills registries.
 
#29 ·
oh, don't get me wrong about APRI.....i agree w/ you on that.....but i have had people say w/ the ABCA that that is not a registry b/c they 1) only reg. the BC's and 2) they don't do conformation ......just making sure that others on here were not under that same assumption......
 
#30 ·
An association is only as good as it membership. Shows only as good as the compitition.

You can not say that one is better then the other as they seem to be different. Just b/c you have not herd of one does not nessicarally make it bad or good for that matter.

As for showing in one and not the other or one registry not being able to show at Westminster or Eukanuba.

Well I am sure you have hear of THe Kentucky Derby and the other triple crown races. Well those are only for TB horses that are 3yo. and registed with the Jocky Club.

Does that make the AQHA less of a registry? They can not run at any of the Triple crown races so by what you are saying is that one is better then the other b/c one has some big show/race on TV and everyone knows about it and the other does not.

To the same there are registry who only register based on Color, some associations/registries are bases solly on a given performance event. Some of these events are offered in several differnt registries yet one is considered more lagit then others. Does this make the other less of a registry b/c the particapants do not like it or think much of it?

There are many differnt ways to look at one thing like it or not. What it comes down to is that the people running the registry/organization is trying to imporve. They all have to start somewhere and for some reason.

APHA was started b/c AQHA would not register AHQA horses with too much white. Does this make APHA a fake registry and no good? Does this make APHA registerd horses junk?

There are many examples that I am sure I have not even thought of. If you do not like something then change it or let it be. Do not talk down about it until you have at least partisipated at their events and see exactly what they are about.

Heidi
 
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