King Shepherd?
DogForums.com is the premier dog Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 21 to 37 of 37

Thread: King Shepherd?

  1. #21
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    894

    Re: King Shepherd?

    Quote Originally Posted by hulkamaniac View Post
    My point is anyone can create a breed standard and start breeding dogs. To me this doesn't make the off spring a new breed. I could breed a basset and a cocker spaniel to try to create a less intelligent, but still very friendly animal that has longer fur. I could call it a basser spaniel and put together a list of specific qualities I'm looking for. I could even start a breed club for other breeders trying to do the same thing. That wouldn't make the basser spaniel a new breed. To me a breed becomes a legitimate breed when it gets recognized by a legit breed recognition body (such as the AKC or the UKC). In my mind, putting together a breed standard and forming your own breed club doesn't make a breed a breed.
    Only when the most of the offspring of mating pairs of your new breed remain true to the breed standard can you say you created a breed. This often takes many generations and years, a great deal of inbreeding, and the production of thousands of substandard puppies which you have to dispose of. Not considered an issue in the Victorian days when so many breeds were developed.

    One of the many reasons why the breeding of first generation hybrids is far more responsible then attempting to create a new breed.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    DogForums.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #22
    Senior Member Keechak's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Wisconsin USA
    Posts
    8,550

    Re: King Shepherd?

    Quote Originally Posted by hulkamaniac View Post
    My point is anyone can create a breed standard and start breeding dogs. To me this doesn't make the off spring a new breed. I could breed a basset and a cocker spaniel to try to create a less intelligent, but still very friendly animal that has longer fur. I could call it a basser spaniel and put together a list of specific qualities I'm looking for. I could even start a breed club for other breeders trying to do the same thing. That wouldn't make the basser spaniel a new breed. To me a breed becomes a legitimate breed when it gets recognized by a legit breed recognition body (such as the AKC or the UKC). In my mind, putting together a breed standard and forming your own breed club doesn't make a breed a breed.
    I think if you bred a basset and a cocker and then after many breedings and many years of breeding only basset cocker mix puppies together to the point that they breed true then you have a new breed. I don't think it takes kennel club recognition to be a breed because the breed club has to request kennel club recognition and if they never request it they will never be accepted.

    My definition of a breed is a bloodline of dogs that breeds true to a set standard for at least 5 generations.

  4. #23
    Senior Member trumpetjock's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Duluth, MN
    Posts
    2,263

    Re: King Shepherd?

    Quote Originally Posted by KaseyT View Post
    Only when the most of the offspring of mating pairs of your new breed remain true to the breed standard can you say you created a breed. This often takes many generations and years, a great deal of inbreeding, and the production of thousands of substandard puppies which you have to dispose of. Not considered an issue in the Victorian days when so many breeds were developed.
    This sorta sounds like what's happening with every labradoodle owner trying to make a buck now anyway, except minus the eventual happy ending of having a true new breed.

  5. #24
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    8

    Re: King Shepherd?

    I have enjoyed reading on this forum for several weeks, and just registered to respond. We have an 8 mo. old female King Shepherd that we got when she was 3 months old.

    It's interesting to see everyone's opinions on the subject. In my eyes, the dog world is not very accepting of new breeds, at least at first. I think - but am not positive - that the AKC just recognized the Dogue de Bordeaux for the first time in the last year or two. That is a breed that I have known about for a long time, and was actually kind of surprised that the AKC just recognized it.

    I thought I knew a lot about different breeds but had never heard of the King Shepherd until I came across it while reading about Shiloh Shepherds. Most everyone that sees our puppy when we're out has never heard of the breed, either. As for our King Shepherd puppy, she's wonderful and I wouldn't trade her for anything. She is intelligent, friendly, and great with our daughter, our other dog (look at my username and guess), and our cat.

  6. #25
    Senior Member hulkamaniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    5,997

    Re: King Shepherd?

    Quote Originally Posted by schnzrlvr View Post
    I have enjoyed reading on this forum for several weeks, and just registered to respond. We have an 8 mo. old female King Shepherd that we got when she was 3 months old.

    It's interesting to see everyone's opinions on the subject. In my eyes, the dog world is not very accepting of new breeds, at least at first. I think - but am not positive - that the AKC just recognized the Dogue de Bordeaux for the first time in the last year or two. That is a breed that I have known about for a long time, and was actually kind of surprised that the AKC just recognized it.

    I thought I knew a lot about different breeds but had never heard of the King Shepherd until I came across it while reading about Shiloh Shepherds. Most everyone that sees our puppy when we're out has never heard of the breed, either. As for our King Shepherd puppy, she's wonderful and I wouldn't trade her for anything. She is intelligent, friendly, and great with our daughter, our other dog (look at my username and guess), and our cat.
    Since you actually own one, how does it differ from a GSD? Just in size? or temperment as well? Welcome to the forums.

  7. #26
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    8

    Re: King Shepherd?

    Thanks for the welcome. I've never owned a GSD, so I can't speak from personal experience on the differences. I expect that she will be bigger than a standard female GSD. She enjoys her long walks but is also content to rest around with us in the evenings. I did not particularly want a dog with a strong work drive, although I know lots of people prefer that personality.

    Since the GSD is in the breed's foundation stock, I imagine there will be similarities and differences. One similarity I've already noticed is that, like the GSD breed standard, she is aloof with strangers - friendly, but kind of with a "take it or leave it" attitude.

    I would post a picture, but am not quite sure how to do it in this message.

  8. #27
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    257

    Re: King Shepherd?

    Quote Originally Posted by schnzrlvr View Post
    I would post a picture, but am not quite sure how to do it in this message.
    You can upload the picture to a website like tinypic.
    You will be given a link, and just post that.
    I believe it was something like [img]*picture link here*[/img]

  9. #28
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    8

    Re: King Shepherd?

    Our 8-month-old King Shepherd:






  10. #29
    Senior Member Equinox's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Oregon
    Posts
    3,521

    Re: King Shepherd?

    Very cute dogs! Do you mind answering a few questions?

    Do all/most "King shepherds" have that coat length? Reminds me of a long coat German shepherd near the face and ears. What made you choose the King over the "Shiloh" (what are the differences, other than size)? Is drive all that turns you away from the German shepherd? I have only met 2 King shepherds before, one was skittish as anything and the other tried to jump up and lick my face and was wiggling with excitement. I didn't get to talk much to either owners, so this is my first time "meeting" someone with a King - sorry for the questions

    While I think King and Shilohs are pretty dogs, I still do not understand the need to create dogs for the sole purpose of providing a better dog for the family when someone can find a breeder and ask for a lower drived German shepherd. I do not believe a well bred German shepherd would be any less healthy than a Shiloh or King. I mean, I can actually understand the whole "Australian Labradoodle" breeding motive. Many of the blind simply cannot deal with so much shedding, and I did read in a book about Guide Dogs that many poodles do not have the eagerness to please that makes German shepherds, Labradors, and Golden Retrievers ideal for Guide work. Of course, I know that many Poodles make fantastic guide dogs, and I think they're beautiful dogs... they just have the misfortune of having a dreadful show cut.

  11. #30
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    8

    Re: King Shepherd?

    No, I don't mind answering those questions - to the best I can, anyway. For the last several years, I have been looking at different dog breeds b/c I was really wanting a second dog. I was drawn to the "giant" breeds - mastiffs and Newfoundlands, in particular. I just wasn't sure that we could accomodate a 175 -200 lb. dog. When I saw the King Shepherd description, I fell in love with the description of the breed, if that makes sense. I think that most of the Kings' coats are long, but some do have shorter hair as well. One reason that I like the long coat is that they are supposed to shed less than the short hair coat (and I just think they are beautiful). I wanted a female b/c she wouldn't be quite as big as a male, and b/c our schnauzer is male.

    To be honest, I'm not really sure about the differences between the King and Shiloh. Before I read about the King Shepherd, I was looking hard at the Shiloh. I can understand that people don't understand the need for 2 such similar breeds. There are other breeds out there that are very similar to each other, i.e. Labrador Retriever and Flat-Coated Retriever (there may be big differences between those 2, I just don't know them). I'm sure a lot of people wonder why not just get a lower-drive GSD and I respect that opinion. All I can say, in my case, is that I fell in love with these dogs.

    Holly was very skittish when we first got her also. We took a puppy training class this spring and have gone on lots of walks at the park. I also take her to Petsmart fairly often. She's doing much better with the skittishness now. I'm going to be enrolling her in another obedience class this summer. I would love to do either therapy work with her one day, or a reading program with children.

  12. #31
    Senior Member Laurelin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    14,751

    Re: King Shepherd?

    Quote Originally Posted by hulkamaniac View Post
    My point is anyone can create a breed standard and start breeding dogs. To me this doesn't make the off spring a new breed. I could breed a basset and a cocker spaniel to try to create a less intelligent, but still very friendly animal that has longer fur. I could call it a basser spaniel and put together a list of specific qualities I'm looking for. I could even start a breed club for other breeders trying to do the same thing. That wouldn't make the basser spaniel a new breed. To me a breed becomes a legitimate breed when it gets recognized by a legit breed recognition body (such as the AKC or the UKC). In my mind, putting together a breed standard and forming your own breed club doesn't make a breed a breed.
    So... the border collie wasn't a breed before the AKC recognized them not too long ago? The ABCA, ASCA, JRTCA aren't as legit as the AKC breed clubs?

    A lot of breeds don't want AKC recognition for many reasons. It does not mean that they are not a breed.
    Mia CGC - (5 year old papillon)
    Summer TG2 TBAD - (10 year old papillon)

  13. #32
    Senior Member 709Juggalette's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Newfoundland
    Posts
    656

    Re: King Shepherd?

    WOW...I was gone for a day or so and came back to all the replies and info.Interesting.

    The reason I asked this in the first place,is I am talking with a reputable GSD breeder and am probably going to get a GSD in the future.We had them growing up and I adore the breed.

    However while doing some GSD reading I came across the "King Shepherd".And I found a so called "breeder" online.I was talking to her and well turns out she is not legit anyway,as she claimed her dogs don't have HD and she doesn't have their hips tested because in her words "overbreeding/inbreeding cause HD" and she don't do that. Don't worry,I am now avoiding this person.

    But then as I was reading about "Kings" I kept getting conflicting information.Thanks for the replies!
    = A well balanced person has a rat on each shoulder =
    *Foster Dog "Mom"*

  14. #33
    Senior Member hulkamaniac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    5,997

    Re: King Shepherd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laurelin View Post
    So... the border collie wasn't a breed before the AKC recognized them not too long ago? The ABCA, ASCA, JRTCA aren't as legit as the AKC breed clubs?

    A lot of breeds don't want AKC recognition for many reasons. It does not mean that they are not a breed.
    I think it has to be recognized by someone other than a breed specific club. I can form a basser spaniel club and establish a breed standard, but in my mind that doesn't make a basser spaniel a breed. To me, getting wide acceptance of a breed is a difficult process and it should be.

  15. #34
    Senior Member Xeph's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    New Castle, PA
    Posts
    12,078

    Re: King Shepherd?

    Acceptance of a breed into a national or international club does not make a breed....breeding true makes a breed (or species).

    The Norwegian Lundehund isn't AKC accepted (FSS now, but still), but it was a breed long before AKC decided to "let it in". Same goes for the Bordeaux. The Plott and Black and Tan Coonhound were certainly breeds before they got AKC recognition....same for the Bluetick Coonhound and the Irish Red and White Setter
    S Konzert vom Drachenberg CD, RN, CGC, TC, retired service dog "Strauss"
    Mana's 5 Cents for Advice Marcato TC "Wesson"
    Blackthorn's Loch RN TC mobility service dog "Loch"
    Marcato's Turn the Page "Nook" - Coming soon!

  16. #35
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    7,942

    Re: King Shepherd?

    Xeph has nailed it.

    Some breeds and breed organizations are not recognized by AKC and the breeders and the orgainizations and the owners don't want them to be. Ever.

    BTW the "slope" people complain about in the GSD is often inaccurately displayed by the set up (Xeph did an AWESOME thread on this). There is an awful lot to sound conformation of any breed of dog or any mixed breed of dog.

  17. #36
    Senior Member FourIsCompany's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    New Mexico
    Posts
    1,525

    Re: King Shepherd?

    Quote Originally Posted by Xeph View Post
    breeding true makes a breed
    That's it. And as far as I know, the King Shepherd breeds true, unlike the Labradoodle. Right? So the KS is a breed that was developed (as all breeds are developed) by breeding other dogs with an existing breed.
    You can train people, honest; It's just harder than it is with dogs.
    ~Patricia McConnell The Other End of the Leash

  18. #37
    Senior Member Xeph's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    New Castle, PA
    Posts
    12,078

    Re: King Shepherd?

    I THINK the King's are still a liiiitle wobbly on breeding true, but are pretty darn close. Not my cup of tea, but I'd call them a breed before I'd call Shilohs a breed.
    S Konzert vom Drachenberg CD, RN, CGC, TC, retired service dog "Strauss"
    Mana's 5 Cents for Advice Marcato TC "Wesson"
    Blackthorn's Loch RN TC mobility service dog "Loch"
    Marcato's Turn the Page "Nook" - Coming soon!

  19. Remove Advertisements
    DogForums.com
    Advertisements
     

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Quick Reply Quick Reply

  • Decrease Size
    Increase Size
  • Remove Text Formatting
  • Insert Link Insert Image Insert Video
  • Wrap [QUOTE] tags around selected text

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
SEO by vBSEO 3.5.2 ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.