Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast
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Thread: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

  1. #81
    Senior Member Canadian Dog's Avatar
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    Quote Originally Posted by flipgirl View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't the poodle originate from the PWD? What is a doodle? All I know is that it's what I do when I'm bored at a meeting.
    Do a search and read the threads.

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  3. #82
    Senior Member borzoimom's Avatar
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    A "doodle" is a mix breed of a breed with a poodle. A PWD is a old recognized breed- necessary for fisherment to help with nets etc. Here is the history on the breed. As well as other information on the breed.
    http://www.pwdca.org/index.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portuguese_Water_Dog

  4. #83
    Senior Member Quincy's Avatar
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    Quote Originally Posted by flipgirl View Post
    What is a doodle? All I know is that it's what I do when I'm bored at a meeting.
    Via this link is a video showing an Australian Labradoodle which some people refer to as a doodle. In the video you can see what the dog looks like including his temperament, maybe that dog might be related to my Quincy and I might later check to see if he is.
    http://www.news10.net/video/player_n...?aid=29957&bw=
    .

  5. #84
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    Quote Originally Posted by borzoimom View Post
    On animal planet " breed all about it" the PWD is coming on in a few minutes..
    How was it? I was out of town for the weekend and missed it..

  6. #85
    Senior Member Quincy's Avatar
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    Quote Originally Posted by B-Line View Post
    Vs. Pristine examples of Doodle's


    B-Line it's been several days since I noticed that you used my dog's photo in the opening to this thread as seen above, and where you mentioned in doing some sort of "compare and contrast". See I tried to respond in this thread, and if you wish to do some sort of "compare and contrast" with my dog then please do so and where I will be quite happy to reply, and over the days I've noticed you posting a number of time in the forum. If you do not wish to do your some sort of compare and contrast with my dog then I suggest that you remove my dog's photo from this thread, and you can quite easily do so with the edit function. And I will say again, if do want to do some sort of "compare and contrast" with my dog then please do so and where I will be quite happy to send a reply, if not then please remove my dog's photo from this thread.
    .

    Quote Originally Posted by Canadian Dog View Post
    Perhaps you were under the impression my original post was responding to yours - it was not - it was regarding the OP comparing PWD and doodles. It had nothing to do with your post.
    No worries, and maybe others can say no worries to me where I may have been under some impression
    .
    Last edited by Quincy; 05-12-2008 at 02:44 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  7. #86
    Junior Member Tink's Avatar
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    In Australia where Labradoodles originated, they were infused with up to 6 different breeds: including Poodle, Labrador Retriever, Irish Water Spaniel, Curly Coat Retriever, American Cocker Spaniel, and English Cocker Spaniel.

    I simply don't understand why people are so up in arms about certain hybrid dog types. They bash everything from their name to their prices. What is it that people find so threatening about them? If we all liked the same thing there would be no diversity. How bland that would be!

    I, like everyone else, have my favorite types of dogs; yet I don't waste time sitting around bashing the ones that don't appeal to me. No one is forced to buy a hybrid. If you don't like 'em, don't have one. Simple enough solution it seems.
    Tink

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    -Alex Hamilton

  8. #87
    Senior Member poodleholic's Avatar
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    Quote Originally Posted by Tink View Post
    In Australia where Labradoodles originated, they were infused with up to 6 different breeds: including Poodle, Labrador Retriever, Irish Water Spaniel, Curly Coat Retriever, American Cocker Spaniel, and English Cocker Spaniel.

    I simply don't understand why people are so up in arms about certain hybrid dog types. They bash everything from their name to their prices. What is it that people find so threatening about them? If we all liked the same thing there would be no diversity. How bland that would be!

    I, like everyone else, have my favorite types of dogs; yet I don't waste time sitting around bashing the ones that don't appeal to me. No one is forced to buy a hybrid. If you don't like 'em, don't have one. Simple enough solution it seems.

    It's not about the dogs; it's about the greedy millers and bybs who are cashing in by making money off their dogs, who care nothing about who they sell their puppies to, because it's all about making a buck.

    There's a big difference between the motives and objectives behind the Australian labaradoodles, and other millers and bybs who are in it for money.

  9. #88
    Senior Member Quincy's Avatar
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    Quote Originally Posted by Tink View Post
    In Australia where Labradoodles originated, they were infused with up to 6 different breeds: including Poodle, Labrador Retriever, Irish Water Spaniel, Curly Coat Retriever, American Cocker Spaniel, and English Cocker Spaniel.
    If one looks back in history within a number of pure breeds you will find more than 2 breeds were used in their development.
    Example, in the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel it is well documented the breeds used were - The Grendin, The Phalene, Curly King Charles, The Truffle Dog, Cocking and Springing Spaniels, White Holland Spaniel, Welsh Springer, The Duke of Norfolk Sussex Spaniel, The Miniature Toy Trawler.

    If anyone wants to know what breeds were used in developing the "Australian Labradoodle" then check with a developer, here is a link and I see information on their website:-
    http://www.rutlandmanor.com/ASD.Index.htm
    .

    Quote Originally Posted by poodleholic View Post
    It's not about the dogs; it's about the greedy millers and bybs who are cashing in by making money off their dogs, who care nothing about who they sell their puppies to, because it's all about making a buck.

    There's a big difference between the motives and objectives behind the Australian labaradoodles, and other millers and bybs who are in it for money.
    Irrigardless of what dogs become popular where people are willing to pay for them, then you will find bybs and millers who will breed and sell them. In the breed I just mentioned the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, well I've seen prices of $2,000 for a pet, and yes you will find millers and bybs breeding and selling heaps of these.
    Here is a thread on one of that breeds forums, read through and see how much people have paid for these dogs:-
    http://www.cavalierboard.com/message...opic.php?t=438
    .
    Last edited by Quincy; 05-12-2008 at 10:00 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  10. #89
    Junior Member Tink's Avatar
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    Why is it assumed that ALL hybrid breeders are unethical? I happen to know quite a few personally and they test their dogs... OFA, CERF, DNA, etc... which is more than can be said for many of the purebred breeders I know.

    No, they're not all perfect and as with any group you will also have your good and bad, but to assume they're all that way is just ignorance. It doesn't reflect badly on the good breeders to see the bashing that goes on here; it reflects badly on those who are making assumptions and judgments that have little basis in fact.

    There are some sound reasons for hybridizing. Widening the genetic pool to eliminate some of the damage done by inbreeding and line breeding are 2 of the biggies. Anyone who has truly studied genetics (which every breeder of EVERY type of animal should do before even starting) can vouch for the fact that more damage has been done by careless purebred breeders than anyone wants to admit.

    For those truly interested in the facts, here's a good article giving the good and the bad of hybrids. http://www.family-pets.com/genetics.html
    Most hybrid breeders don't want to create a new breed or produce puppies which are all identical - only puppies which are all healthy, intelligent, full of personality and with attributes which make them good family pets. If the parents are also well treated, tested and loved, I find it hard to fault the program. The ones I network with all take back a pup if at any time in it's life It can't be kept with it's family.

    I think it's just sad that so many refuse to take the time to know what they're talking about before they start preaching.
    Tink

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    -Alex Hamilton

  11. #90
    Super Moderator Curbside Prophet's Avatar
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    Quote Originally Posted by Tink View Post
    Why is it assumed that ALL hybrid breeders are unethical?
    I assume all breeders are unethical and follow this mantra - all breeders are irresponsible until proven otherwise. Seriously, how could the mini St. Bernard be considered anything but unethical? Their ain't no St. Bernard in it!

    but to assume they're all that way is just ignorance.
    Actually it's not ignorance at all. Unfortunately this is the only way a consumer can protect themselves from unscrupulous breeders and their propaganda. Asking the tough questions is the only intelligent way to qualify a breeder. There should be more of this, and anyone calling it ignorance really isn't aware of the problem in dogdom.

    it reflects badly on those who are making assumptions and judgments that have little basis in fact.
    I can only assume you made this statement from a position of bias...since you're doing exactly what you claim the other side is doing. Otherwise, you too would realize that good breeders are far and few between, and the truths among breeders is even more fleeting.

    Widening the genetic pool to eliminate some of the damage done by inbreeding and line breeding are 2 of the biggies.
    Actually, inbreeding and line breeding are not the problem. Every dog, irregardless of source has at least 4 bad genes. So mixed breedings do not solve the problem any better than thoughtful breeding would in the first place. However, as I stated earlier, good breeders are far and few between, so any attempt to "widen" gene pools won't be realized in a selective breeding system. Breeders simply aren't organized in a way to realize genetic theories in a non-laboratory setting. The genetic theories may be there, but these theories came from a laboratory. Your average breeder simply can't reproduce a laboratory results in their home. It's simply not practical.

    Anyone who has truly studied genetics (which every breeder of EVERY type of animal should do before even starting) can vouch for the fact that more damage has been done by careless purebred breeders than anyone wants to admit.
    And mixed breeders are exempt from the carelessness of breeding? I think not.

    Most hybrid breeders don't want to create a new breed or produce puppies which are all identical - only puppies which are all healthy, intelligent, full of personality and with attributes which make them good family pets. If the parents are also well treated, tested and loved, I find it hard to fault the program.
    If these breeders really wanted to help dogdom, they would recognize there is already a surplus of mix bred dogs in our shelter system that are healthy, full of "personality", "intelligence" and favorable "attributes". And many have served as wonderful family pets. You won't win this argument. And I find it hard to fault the dog for being in the shelter in the first place. Why would we need more of the same? I know, I know, are "sames" are different - or so you think.

    I think it's just sad that so many refuse to take the time to know what they're talking about before they start preaching.
    And I find the disconnect among hybrid advocates disturbing. They preach a new vision that lacks substance and doesn't really address the real problem in dogdom...lack of structure among breeders. If we really want a healthy companionable dog the pressure should be on all breeders to get their crap together, not on a whim or by what flavor we want this week.
    Last edited by Curbside Prophet; 05-12-2008 at 01:54 PM.

  12. #91
    Junior Member Tink's Avatar
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    Curbside prophet, that response would be really well written if you knew what you were talking about. Sadly, you don't.

    It's the same propaganda I see preached by dog purists all over the net. I'm not trying to say all hybrid breeders are ethical; but neither are all "purebred" ones. But to insinuate that everyone is bad just makes me wonder what crappy things must have been done to you to make you so bitter and biased.

    Many shelters aren't any more ethical than the puppy mills they claim to shut down... that's not to say there aren't good ones, but to say they're all good makes no more sense than to say all breeders are bad. Generalizations don't work any better than racial profiling does, and we see on the news how well that works.

    My interest isn't to argue with you or anyone else. I will however share the other side of the story for those open minded enough to at least consider it in the hope that we can eventually put an end to the senseless fighting.
    Tink

    "Those who stand for nothing fall for anything."
    -Alex Hamilton

  13. #92
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    Jeez Quincy,

    A guy goes away for the weekend to see two of his friends joined in the sanctity of marriage and you make it seem as though I have pee'd in your Cheerios.

    1) I was using your dog in the post because, to be quite honest, it was the cutest picture of a Labradoodle I have ever seen. I meant it as a compliment, not an insult.

    2) Since the picture of your dog:


    Reminded me a lot of this picture of my dog:


    So I thought, the two, cute pictures, of our dogs, would be a nice catalyst for a conversation starter.

    If though, my use, of your dogs picture, has in any way, made you to feel as though I have, pee'd in your cheerios, I will gladly edit it out and use some other Labradoodle picture, which doesn't quite show how beautiful and refined, the dog can be: (a very cute dog, but not quite to "standard")


    But I was really trying to be "fair", "objective" in this thread... But from now on, I'll be sure to use, "less than perfect" examples of Labradoodles to illustrate my point.. Thanks for chiming in..

    B

  14. #93
    Super Moderator Curbside Prophet's Avatar
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    Quote Originally Posted by Tink View Post
    Curbside prophet, that response would be really well written if you knew what you were talking about. Sadly, you don't.
    I must have struck a chord since you seem to only want to make this personal and don't care to state what I said wrong. *shrugs*

    It's the same propaganda I see preached by dog purists all over the net. I'm not trying to say all hybrid breeders are ethical; but neither are all "purebred" ones. But to insinuate that everyone is bad just makes me wonder what crappy things must have been done to you to make you so bitter and biased.
    I don't know why I'm bitter...perhaps because I spend my time volunteering at the largest animal shelter west of the rockies. And if you read my post without bias you would have read the part where I stated all breeders (that would include purists) are irresponsible until "proven" otherwise. I think you're reading only what you want to read and by definition that is close mindedness.

    The consumer has to make this judgments based on the facts that are real to them. Not by what a few advocates claim to be the truth - your "story" is nothing more than an anecdote. Chances are they'll never find the truth because there ARE more bad breeders than good ones. If this were not true, we would not have a surplus problem. All dogs would be accounted for from the minute sperm met egg till death. Or did you not see my pointing fingers at how breeders are organized? I actually do think there is a place to remove breeds and add new ones, but that won't happen today or tomorrow - not until the system is changed. So I don't see the point in (pardon the pun) mixing it up even more.

    Many shelters aren't any more ethical than the puppy mills they claim to shut down... that's not to say there aren't good ones, but to say they're all good makes no more sense than to say all breeders are bad. Generalizations don't work any better than racial profiling does, and we see on the news how well that works.
    I don't recall speaking on shelter organizations or racial profiling. So what do these have to do with ethical breeding? Or do you have some unfinished preaching to do yourself? There wouldn't be a need for shelters if breeders were responsible for what they produce. But very few are, and that's no different in the "hybrid" world.

    My interest isn't to argue with you or anyone else. I will however share the other side of the story for those open minded enough to at least consider it in the hope that we can eventually put an end to the senseless fighting.
    I'm sorry, I thought you were singling out the critics in your last post. I didn't realize your criticism was part of your "story". Nor do I see how your criticism ends the "senseless fighting", unless you too lost a moment of sense. *shrugs*

  15. #94
    Senior Member borzoimom's Avatar
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    Quote Originally Posted by Tink View Post
    There are some sound reasons for hybridizing. Widening the genetic pool to eliminate some of the damage done by inbreeding and line breeding are 2 of the biggies. .....
    This statement cracks me up.. I could almost see the logic if we were talking mixed of two very rare breeds- but the ones being used as " hybrids" as you call it, are some of the most popular breeds of all of them. Needing to mix into gene pools??? With the breeds that has the most dogs available??? Surely you jest.. As a matter of fact, the over breeding of the popular breeds is what brought on the most problems- the people that have no clue about genetics or not willing to invest into " sound breeding stock" so to speak.
    I have 3 borzois in this house now- and if you look at the pedigree, althought totally different " lines" they have at least one dog in common on their pedigrees. Thank GOD the people that bred the dogs knew what the heck they were doing. Now THAT is a small gene pool- but comparing a breed like a Borzoi with barely over 600 registered per year with say Labs etc that average 5 figures or in the case of labs over 100,000, the arguement of " small gene pool" hardly holds water...
    Given a choice- I would rather deal with a breed, although a smaller gene pool but those that know what the heck they are doing than a over bred breed any day.. Like the PWD- small in numbers but people that know what they are doing and guarded to protect the old breed to continue.

  16. #95
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    The overall impact of professional home breeders on the welfare of dogs is almost non-existed compared to the impact of cheap, free, and homeless puppies. Makes no difference if the motivation of the breeder is purely egalitarian or purely profit motivated.

    If breeders and owners wanted to help dogs they would support a federal, nationwide, spay-neuter law that would require breeders to pay a large fee to breed and force all other dogs to be neutered by 6 months.

    Not only would such a law the dramatically reduce the number of of unadoptable dogs in shelters, it would make puppy mills and other large scale breeding operations unprofitable.

  17. #96
    Senior Member borzoimom's Avatar
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    I agree KaseyT..

  18. #97
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    I can't speak for other breeds or other breeders,
    But I know I had to sign a very strict, no breeding contract.

    I don't know how realistically enforceable the contract is, but I do know, I could not get AKC papers for Maggie until she was fixed.

    I would assume that most good breeders would only allow you to breed and get AKC papers, if they were sure, you were doing your best, to generate great liters. And that BYB, puppy mill, etc. would not be allowed.

    Again though, I'm sure there are all types of breeders and contracts.

    And not to say that AKC papers are important. But it is a way for breeders to control what happens to their stock. Yes, I'm sure you can always buy a "grey market" non papered dog, but it's the hope that such methods, might prevent people from breeding without meeting certain standards.

  19. #98
    Senior Member Quincy's Avatar
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    Quote Originally Posted by B-Line View Post
    Jeez Quincy,

    A guy goes away for the weekend to see two of his friends joined in the sanctity of marriage and you make it seem as though I have pee'd in your Cheerios.

    1) I was using your dog in the post because, to be quite honest, it was the cutest picture of a Labradoodle I have ever seen. I meant it as a compliment, not an insult.
    No worries and thanks, your dog looks great

    Maybe now we can go on with what you wanted where you mentioned some sort of compare and contrast.

    Firstly you referring to my dog as a Labradoodle. My dog is NOT a "Labradoodle" but an "Australian Labradoodle". Words used in names can mean completely different dogs, say like a "Cocker Spaniel" is NOT an "English Cocker Spaniel" and they are 2 different breeds, the added word English differentiates these dogs.

    AKC - Cocker Spaniel
    http://www.akc.org/breeds/cocker_spaniel/

    AKC - English Cocker Spaniel
    http://www.akc.org/breeds/english_cocker_spaniel/
    .

  20. #99
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    B-Line,

    Thanks for starting this thread, I enjoyed reading about the differences in the two dogs. I am very allergic to dogs and have been considering a PWD or an Australian Labradoodle for my next dog. I have a bichon poo puppy that I just adore.

    Unfortunately, no matter how politely you asked, the doodle bashers just could not control themselves. I am amazed at the self-righteous arrogance displayed by some people on these boards (surprisingly, the women on the Purse Forum are less catty and more respectful to each other than some of the dog lovers on here).

  21. #100
    Senior Member FilleBelle's Avatar
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    Re: Portuguese Water Dog and Doodle - Compare and Contrast

    I'm with KaseyT!


    RIP Clifford, who never met a stranger

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